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Raystown Roof Cleaning Central PA 1-800-236-0322 wrote:

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I would be more interested in this augmenting idea if it wasn't going to leave a mess in my tank. I still may try it in a bucket and do a trial spray to see the effectiveness of the mix. Then worry about the mess.

Chris, CH appeals to me more than you simply because I have to buy SH in 53 gallon barrels, and unload them onto a barrel stand,..I can't just pull up and throw a hose in a tank like you Fla. guys can. If CH becomes a suitable substitute I would be all for it,...If nothing else AC is keeping me interested in the whole idea.

Jeff

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 CH does have some advantages Jeff as far as not leaving a salt residue, but it will still kill plants. 

It is not like the CH evaporates to ONLY Calcium.

When working with ANY type of Acid or Oxidizer around plants, one must always be careful!

Subject: Why does chlorine kill plant???

Date: Sun Jun 6 12:18:35 1999
Posted by Chris@Apple Roof Cleaning
Grade level: teacher/prof School: Roof cleaners institute
City: Brandon State/Province: Fl Country: 33510
Area of science: Botany
ID: 928689515.Bt

Message:

WE use chlorine to clean roofs of mildew and algae.
If we rinse it off, or leave it on for the rain to rinse it 
makes plants turn yelow, drop leaves, etc!
Is there any feasable way to neutralize the chlorine, or 
anything we can do to protect the plants and the environment?

Re: Why does chlorine kill plant???

Like you said Jeff, CH is not needed by us Florida Roof Cleaners, who just pull up, and get our tanks filled with the good and fresh SH.

Plus, I made a choice years ago not to sell any roof cleaning equipment or chemicals.

I wanted my advice to be the best roof cleaning advice possible, and not based on what chemical or equipment I was trying to Pimp at the time.

So Jeff, since I have zero need for CH, and don't sell anything, making CH work for roof cleaning has not exactly been a priority for me.

However, I think the final answer to making the CH work will be a chemical addition to it to prevent the well known scale, as well as an activator for it, to make it clean better.

Of course, this will be in addition to good filtering of the well known sediment.

The approach AC has taken is not w/o merit. The Softwash Systems Powdered Bleach Option for their skids is "another way to skin the cat", and to solve the CH Scale problem.

Though somewhat complex and expensive compared to a simple chemical scale inhibitor for the powdered bleach (CH), one must consider the other advantages of it.

That is, to have a decent supply of Reverse Osmosis Water, whenever it is needed. 

Jeff, 95% of my business is cleaning roofs ONLY.

So, there is no need for us to clean windows on the house of a roof we have just done.

Rather then pick up a few hundred dollars cleaning the windows, we simply drive to the next big tile roof cleaning job, and pick up 850.00.

But, for a roof cleaning company with less work then we have, it is a great idea, and an easy way to pick up some extra money.

All made possible by the Softwash Systems Powdered Bleach Option on site generated Reverse Osmosis water, feeding one of these water fed poles.

Raystown Roof Cleaning Central PA 1-800-236-0322 wrote:

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Yea Chris,..I won't be buying any special equipment. If I could get CH to work with equal effort as SH I would be all for it. I basically want a mix and apply, otherwise I will just stick with SH bought in 53 gallon barrels,...I like the Univar girls anyhow,Ha,Ha,..

Jeff

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 Sorry for the late reply Jeff. 

First, you need to figure out if the local water you plan to use is Hard, or Soft. If it is soft, you are home free, so to speak.

Why Is Water Neutral pH?

The chemical formula for water usually is written as H2O, but another way to consider the formula is HOH, where a positively charged hydrogen ion H+ is bonded to a negatively charged hydroxide ion OH-. This means water has properties of both an acid and a base, where the properties essentially cancel each other out.

H+ + (OH)- = HOH = H2O = water

pH of Drinking Water

Although the pH of pure water is 7, drinking water and natural water exhibits a pH range because it contains dissolved minerals and gases. Surface waters typically range from pH 6.5 to 8.5 while groundwater ranges from pH 6 to 8.5.

Water with a pH less than 6.5 is considered acidic. This water typically is corrosive and soft. It may contain metal ions, such as copper, iron, lead, manganese and zinc. The metal ions may be toxic, may produce a metallic taste, and can stain fixtures and fabrics. The low pH can damage metal pipes and fixtures.

Water with a pH higher than 8.5 is considered basic or alkaline. This water often is hard water, containing ions that can form scale deposits in pipes and contribute an alkali taste.

One way to figure out how to do something, is to see how others have already done it. There are several US Patents on the subject of chemically eliminating the scale formation of the Powdered Bleach, also called CH.

Here is the abstract of one of them:

Raystown Roof Cleaning Central PA 1-800-236-0322 wrote:

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Yea Chris,..I won't be buying any special equipment. If I could get CH to work with equal effort as SH I would be all for it. I basically want a mix and apply, otherwise I will just stick with SH bought in 53 gallon barrels,...I like the Univar girls anyhow,Ha,Ha,..

Jeff

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 Calcium H can be some really nasty stuff,. as can be seen in this video. 

Central Iowa Roof Cleaning wrote:

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This maybe little off topic. I had a conversation the other day about a guy that just spent about $14,000.00 for a soft wash set up. The sad part he took out a second mortgage on his house to do so. He is calling around now on how to market roof cleaning. Poor guy hasn't even cleaned a roof yet. Look I am all for anyone that wants to do business but this type of hype is way out in left field. What is going on in this industry?

I am not the brightest light bulb in the box but not the dimmest either. Have some gone to the point of selling hopes and dreams?

I am all about marketing and can do a good job of it but I also back up my marketing with results. I really felt bad for this guy. Anyone that has started a roof cleaning service knows it isn't easy and the new and improved isn't going to put money in your pocket! Marketing and branding will only do that. How about the K.I.S.S. principle. What's wrong with the equipment and mixes that has been around for years and is proven?

I get it, some buy with emotions and not common sense. That's life.

I remember when I started with a used truck I had and under $1,400.00 for equipment and cleaned many a roofs with that. Also, good ole SH, water and surfactant. Customers were happy, happy, happy!

Oh I forgot this. SH won't kill plants. Only the person using it will!

-- Edited by Central Iowa Roof Cleaning on Tuesday 18th of February 2014 04:14:25 PM

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 This "Industry" has been "sold out" a long time ago by some people,  whose main objective is to line their pockets, vs really helping our newcomers.

Raystown Roof Cleaning Central PA 1-800-236-0322 wrote:

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I put total blame on the guy who bought without researching, he could have been well aware of the simplicity if he had been patient. The guy selling was doing just that,...selling.

Yes, a pump, tank, some garden hose and a simple mix would have made him money,..instead he spent money,...and if this is the CH soft wash unit,..he's in for a rough ride I think. My advice to him would be: DO NOT USE IT sell it at a loss if necessary,.. Tell him to learn the simple way before going any further.

I've said it numerous times,..this is simple work that everyone including me has tried to make the "perfect" mix or design or what have you. BUT,..I have learned to quit trying to advance by leaps and bounds,..I still may tweak here and there,..but nothing major,..although,..I am done messing with mix additives. I use the original on bad roofs,..(Water,SH,TSP)................on basic roofs I use Water, SH and S Bicarbonate.

Jeff

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 He may Have done his research Jeff, but just done it in the wrong places, on the wrong forums! Some of these forums read like one big Infomercial. These Infomercial forums create a "feeding frenzy" that sucks people into buying the overpriced crap that they sell.

Raystown Roof Cleaning Central PA 1-800-236-0322 wrote:

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This guy went and bought a $14,000 machine for a service he's never provided,..sorry,..but that's his fault. If he buys into the hype of a "GREAT" machine that will make him millions of dollars,....that is also his fault. If he didn't take the time to find alternate ideas,..then he didn't really do research,..he stopped by a "seminar".

Unless it's a 70+ senior citizen who is frightened and lied to into a sale, or a minor who is sold something on dreams,..I will always blame the buyer,....
Me,..I will never be "sold" anything,...I buy stuff.

Jeff

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 LOL, this picture says it all 

Raystown Roof Cleaning Central PA 1-800-236-0322 wrote:

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This guy went and bought a $14,000 machine for a service he's never provided,..sorry,..but that's his fault. If he buys into the hype of a "GREAT" machine that will make him millions of dollars,....that is also his fault. If he didn't take the time to find alternate ideas,..then he didn't really do research,..he stopped by a "seminar".

Unless it's a 70+ senior citizen who is frightened and lied to into a sale, or a minor who is sold something on dreams,..I will always blame the buyer,....
Me,..I will never be "sold" anything,...I buy stuff.

Jeff

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 There's a sucker born every day. Eventually they grow up and do things such as this. Sounds like he bought into the hype (literally), tried doing to much to fast, and now he's stuck with some expensive equipment sitting in the driveway. Why someone would take a second mortgage out to buy equipment used in about a trade they know nothing about is beyond me. I can say that because I started from nothing, did my research, asked a few questions, did some trial and error, built my own rig, and now I'm in a good place. And I sure didn't spend $14,000 doing it.

Stay Clean wrote:

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Back to the topic of borax being safe for a moment. Borax is S tetraborate. Any reason for/against using the box containing S carbonate? It's the yellow box usually next to borax labeled as a super washing soda(I'm assuming most of you know what this is so I wont say the name brand). Just curious if anyone has tried this in the mix and if it makes a difference good or bad or if its basically the same thing. Thanks...

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 Washing Soda can be used, because it is ALKALINE (at a high PH).