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Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 · Jun 29, 2013

Removal of Green Steaks in Copper Gutters

Guest

Marcus - are you implying that the roof cleaning mix caused the green patina, or that it's unrelated and she just wants it taken care of? We've never had a problem with copper gutters.

You'll want to be extremely cautious or parts of those gutters will shine like a brand new penny depending on what you use. Personally, if it were my house, I'd leave them alone, green and all. That's part of the beauty of copper - just like the Statue of Liberty.

Be very careful bud.

Roof Cleaning Tallahassee · Guest

Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I agree, lets keep this thread alive so that hopefully we can resolve the issue on how to clean the green off the gutters and to warn other roof cleaners about copper gutters. I have been cleaning roof for 19 years and this is the 1st time that I have cleaned a house with copper gutters.
Salt is not actually an ingredient of SH, it is a byproduct. SH an inexpensive, strong oxidizing agent.
As your article states: WHY DOES COPPER TURN GREEN? - Copper turns green through a process called oxidation...
Now the question that remains is how to get it off without ruining the gutter's dark brown patina as some of it is not reachable...

Marcus, I have cleaned about 6 homes with copper gutters, copper down spouts and even copper valleys and have never had an issue with the strong oxidizing agent that I use (SH) because we rinse within about 10-15 minutes after our initial application. Every single one of them were brown and not the classicpatina" hich is the desirable green color that most folks are accustom to due to natural elements.

What is your mix Marcus? Is it the just the basic's or do you add some sort of "customized" variation? You can PM me if you have a secret sauce ingredient and it will never get out because I use what works for me and will never change my mix, but I just want to be able to find / research cause and how you can avoid this situation in the future.

Also, as noted in another post .... were these "patina green stripes" present before your cleaning? "Befor and After" pictures come in handy not only for marketing but also for situations like this!

I'll keep my eyes out and check back in if I find some useful information or articles for you.

-- Edited by Roof Cleaning Tallahassee on Sunday 30th of June 2013 01:28:26 AM

Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 · Jun 30, 2013

I agree, it is a touchy situation. Yes, she is implying that I caused the green streaks on the outside of her copper gutters. Her husband just retired from being the CEO of Shell Oil Co and they are moving. Any ideas on how to remove the green oxidation without making the gutters shiny? As I mentioned before, some areas in the back yard are not reachable from a ladder and you can not get a lift there. So you do not want shiny gutters around the house with a 40' dark area in back...

Kleen Roof and Exterior Cleaning · Jun 30, 2013

Not sure what wouild work on cleaning the green off without making them shine in that area. If there is an area you can get to easy try some lemon juice, start at about 50% strength. Put it on a rag and rub it on the green. Be ready to rinse it right away. Taking just the green off is going to be a tuff job.

Guest

I don't know what I'm about to write for fact Marcus, but I'm pretty darn sure:

I don't think you can cause copper to turn green (verdigris) if you tried to with roof mix. Pop a couple of pennies in a jar of SH overnight. I just about guarantee they won't turn green. Some folks (artists etc) try to accelerate that patina, and it's not easy to accomplish. I suspect that it was there all along, and took quite some time to form. They HO likely never noticed it before until she 'inspected' your work.

We've done lots of older homes in the city with copper gutters and never had an issue Marcus. I think that your client is mistaken, or worse case, trying to get over.

I know of no way to remove that patina without risking revealing that shiny copper color underneath.

Thought: soak the pennies. Keep another one on a brick or something and coat it with SH multiple times. (Maybe air could effect it...) If they don't turn green, then do the same demo..... on a down spout at ground level in front of the HO. Wish her well and move on

You could also contact any of the copper gutter manufacturers to get their take on that green discoloration.

Please let us know what you find out and good luck!!

Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 · Jun 30, 2013

I can not say that we did or did not do it... I do know that the green streaks were not there 45 days ago before or after we cleaned the roof. Oxidation takes time and from what I have googled on the subject it, green patina on copper can be created on a copper surface by using an acid. This is not a pretty green patina. These copper gutters had a dark brown patina, and now it is dark brown with blue/green oxidized stripes.

Roof Cleaning Tallahassee · Guest

Marcus, I searched around and found this. It might or might not help but I'm sure if we can keep this thread going, we can figure it out. In the link below, it actually states that salt (ingredient in SH) mixed with vinager will remove patina and not "cause" it.

Hope this helps and I'll continue to look around for some other articles until you get this resolved!

http://e13o13.hubpages.com/hub/What-Causes-Copper-To-Turn-Green

Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 · Jun 30, 2013

Thanks for the reply. I agree, lets keep this thread alive so that hopefully we can resolve the issue on how to clean the green off the gutters and to warn other roof cleaners about copper gutters. I have been cleaning roof for 19 years and this is the 1st time that I have cleaned a house with copper gutters.

Salt is not actually an ingredient of SH, it is a byproduct. SH an inexpensive, strong oxidizing agent.

As your article states: WHY DOES COPPER TURN GREEN? - Copper turns green through a process called oxidation...

Now the question that remains is how to get it off without ruining the gutter's dark brown patina as some of it is not reachable...

Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 · Jun 30, 2013

In my 1st post I noted that the green stripes were not there before nor after we cleaned the house. But that was 45 days ago.

I was using a 60/40 mix of SH/H20 and some other solutions that AC taught me to use. I used this mix because of the steepness of the roof, how dirty it was, and how large it was. The spec on this house were in another post. This roof was not rinsed.

I have many before and after pics and even a video of us cleaning the roof from the ground and in the air that we are in the process of editing.

Jun 30, 2013

Marcus, try cleaning a small area with some S hydroxide. I would go about 50/50 on it. Either that or some simple green. Not positive that it will work but its what I would try if it were me. We have done roofs with copper gutters using just sh and soap and never had an issue. Not sure what this other ingredient is so I can't say if that caused it or not.

A to Z · Deleted

I heard Diet Pepsi could be used to excellerate patina. I have never tried it but it was a copper smith who told me.
One thing I do know for a fact is that the Flux used in soldering copper together causes those areas to patina in about a week. I know this from experience back when I used to install and fabricate 1/2 round copper gutter systems.

Kleen Roof and Exterior Cleaning · Jul 1, 2013

If they are the blue and green stripes, try using de-ionized water on them. this will take the blue-green stripes off copper when it is cleaned with an acid. not sure if it works if the discoloration has been there for a while.

Art O · Guest

Marcus I did a house wash last week and I got the S/H on the front door knob. The brass turned black and ran down the door. It wouldn't come off for anything. Then I went to my truck and found a jug of One Restore. The black came off real easy, Like it was nothing. Give it a try , It may just work. Good Luck

Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 · Jul 2, 2013

Thanks a lot for the input guys. I was out of town yesterday and very busy today.

Art, One Restore is one of the products I am going to try. I use that stuff a lot on other things to clean. I am cleaning several test spots in a non conspicuous area of the house Wednesday.

Art O · Guest

Good luck and I hope you get some results.

FullBlast · Guest

How did you make out Marcus??

I hope well!!

Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 · Jul 11, 2013

FullBlast wrote:
How did you make out Marcus??

I hope well!!

She told me that she was going out of town and that she would leave word at he gate to let me in to do so sample tests. I arrived at the gated community last Wednesday and she had forgotten to put me on the list to come in. I called and left a message on her home phone and she has not returned it yet...

Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 · Jul 23, 2013

So far I have spent 10 hours cleaning the green streaks from the copper gutters. I have tried several solutions but so far vinegar and salt seem to work best. Most everything else makes the gutters shiny and the customer does not want to ruin the brown patina in her copper gutters. The problem that I ran into is that the acid cleans the gutters and then they turn green again. After some research I found out that I needed to add salt to the vinegar. Cleaning copper with an acid is an equilibrium reaction. The acid removes the oxidation and then the copper oxidizes. Salt (NaCl) keeps the copper from re-oxidizing. With that said the vinegar/salt solution is not so strong so it does not remove the brown patina from the gutters but you have to do a lot of scrubbing...

Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 · Jul 25, 2013

Forget the vinegar & salt. We found a new trick. Power Steering fluid. That makes the brown patina gutters shine and the green turns dark and blends in with the brown patina. We went over what we cleaned to make it match and the gutters look like new but shiny. Next Thursday we will finish the front of the house which should only take a few hours.''

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"Find A Certified Roof Cleaner Directory"