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Post Info TOPIC: Do weaker roof cleaning solutions keep roofs cleaner longer ?


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Do weaker roof cleaning solutions keep roofs cleaner longer ?
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I will tell you a true story. For years, all my roof cleaning trucks have had 2 tanks. One with tile roof strength, and one with weaker shingle strength chemicals.

I did a big tile roof once with tile strength chemical. It took all the tile chemical I had left to clean it.

The neighbor waved cash under my nose, and all I had was weak shingle chemical, but lots of it. The big tile roof finally cleaned, I had to go over it about 3 times!

Well, the guy with the first roof I did called us 2 years later. He was filthy! Yet, his neighbor, done with the weaker chemical, was much cleaner! 

I freaked out! 

OK roof cleaners, do any of you have any idea WHY this happened ?

 

Here is why.

Will adding NaOH change the effectiveness of SH?

No, because when the sodium hypochlorite solution is added to water, the water decreases the pH and the sodium hypochlorite becomes more active. The chemistry behind this is: the pH scale is from 0 to 14. Acids have a pH below 7, bases are above 7, and 7 is neutral. Most natural water is around pH 6-7. When sodium hypochlorite is in water, it is a mixture of two compounds, with the concentration of each compound dependent on pH. One of these compounds is significantly more reactive, volatile, and more effective at inactivating bacteria than the other. At high pH (above 11) the majority of the sodium hypochlorite is in the form of the less-reactive compound. Thus, when you add sodium hydroxide to the sodium hypochlorite, you are converting it into the less-reactive form. However, water is around pH 6-7. When you add a small amount (5 milliliters) of solution at pH 11 to a large amount (20 liters) of water at pH 6-7, the mixture becomes pH 6-7. Thus, when you add the hypochlorite at pH 11 to your water in the SWS, you convert the hypochlorite back into the reactive form, and then it inactivates the disease-causing organisms.

 

As can be seen, the SH at different PH Levels acts very differently. At high PH (strong roof cleaning solutions) the Hypochlorite ION (the stuff that does the cleaning) is mostly present, and little to NONE of the hypochlorus acid(the stuff that kills organisms) is present.

Does Everyone Understand ?

 

 



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Kleen Roof and Exterior Cleaning wrote:

Would it stand to reason then, if a roof has moss and lichen it would be better to treat it 2 or 3 times with a weaker mix(2-3%) to kill the hardy invasive species ? And if a roof is only got black streaks a stronger mix (4-5%) would take care of it in one pass.


I assume when you say 2-5% you are giving the actual SH % ?

10% pool chlorine, mixed 50 gallons SH to 50 gallons water, is really 5% -not 50%.

So, if that's what you are saying [ of course, I have no real experience with mold and very little with lichen here in SW Florida ] Then I would say yes. 2 or 3 treatments at 2.5% - in my estimation, would do a more thourough job of destroying/killing. But, from what I understand, with mold, doesn't it have to then be blown off with a garden hose or mild pressure washing, to get it off the roof?

Clearly, the stronger 5% [often referred to as 50% SH / 50% water] would clean the roof faster, but not disinfect / kill mold-algae spores as well.



-- Edited by Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 on Sunday 17th of March 2013 08:18:46 PM

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disbeliefdisbeliefdisbeliefconfuse



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Mr Maintenance wrote:

disbeliefdisbeliefdisbeliefconfuse


 What don't you understand, tell me and I will explain biggrin



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I understand. While the higher SH level in a cleaning mix cleans faster, it does not have the PH level to destroy the disease-causing organisms. The lower SH level, with more water, cleans slower but has more ability to destroy the disease-causing organisms.
While I understand the explanation, I would like to put it to a test. :)
The reason is, I do a number of small HOA developments -I mean small ones, like up to 15 houses on a circle drive etc. When I do 5 in a row one year, 2 years later, the one in the middle , or whatever, may be showing some small amount of algae growth, while the other 3 or 4 may look like I just did them.
So, I have come to see that even 5 tile roofs in a row are not going to stay clean the same length of time, even when cleaned with the same 45% SH mix used on them all.
Interesting facts and thought though!

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 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 wrote:

I understand. While the higher SH level in a cleaning mix cleans faster, it does not have the PH level to destroy the disease-causing organisms. The lower SH level, with more water, cleans slower but has more ability to destroy the disease-causing organisms.
While I understand the explanation, I would like to put it to a test. :)
The reason is, I do a number of small HOA developments -I mean small ones, like up to 15 houses on a circle drive etc. When I do 5 in a row one year, 2 years later, the one in the middle , or whatever, may be showing some small amount of algae growth, while the other 3 or 4 may look like I just did them.
So, I have come to see that even 5 tile roofs in a row are not going to stay clean the same length of time, even when cleaned with the same 45% SH mix used on them all.
Interesting facts and thought though!


 At weaker levels (more water in the mix) the PH drops because of all that water. As PH drops in chlorine, the hyperchlorus begins to dominate. This is the disinfectant part of the chlorine, and one reason we add acid to swim pools, to drop the PH and disinfect.

At higher PH levels, the hypochlorite Ion appears, and that is what cleans for us. Weaker roof cleaning mixes have BOTH the acid and the hypochlorite  Ion in them!

Strong roof cleaning mixes have only the Hypochlorite Ion, and little to no hyperchlorus acid to kill the algae spores.

 

This is why when you preventative spray to treat a roof, you only want 20 percent SH to water, and maybe add a little sulferic acid to the mix, but got to be careful not to drop the PH too far, or deadly fumes will form.

Unless one knows what is really going on with the SH, it does not make sense that  a weaker mix can kill algae spores better.

 

 

 

 

 

 



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Would it stand to reason then, if a roof has moss and lichen it would be better to treat it 2 or 3 times with a weaker mix(2-3%) to kill the hardy invasive species ? And if a roof is only got black streaks a stronger mix (4-5%) would take care of it in one pass.

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You know Chris, this is really quite an important line of thinking!
It opens up a whole new avenue of potential sales! Algae prevention!
I have never sold this, because I hadn't known the facts that you posted!
Man! 24 years of roof cleaning in Florida and I am still learning from you on a very regular basis and I know my business! But, you are a freakin' genius with this stuff!
I came here in 1999, already thinking I knew it all, when it came to roof cleaning. I showed up [to be honest] not willing to let out much info at first. But you kept surprising me with info I didn't already know-mainly this chemist stuff you know! Then I started opening up and answering newbie etc questions. Looking back, I'm sure glad I came here! I'm a smarter roof cleaner for it!!!
Now, I gotta go drink wine with my wife! LOL

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Serving Englewood Rotonda North Port Cape Haze Venice Port Charlotte Punta Gorda Boca Grande Charlotte and Southern Sarasota Counties in Florida.

941-698-1959
www.bergmanroofcleaning.com

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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Chuck, I'm here in SWFL tooand I always use a 35% solution of 12% SH. Have you found that solution that you use to be the "right" mix for most tile roofs in SWFL?

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Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 wrote:

You know Chris, this is really quite an important line of thinking!
It opens up a whole new avenue of potential sales! Algae prevention!
I have never sold this, because I hadn't known the facts that you posted!
Man! 24 years of roof cleaning in Florida and I am still learning from you on a very regular basis and I know my business! But, you are a freakin' genius with this stuff!
I came here in 1999, already thinking I knew it all, when it came to roof cleaning. I showed up [to be honest] not willing to let out much info at first. But you kept surprising me with info I didn't already know-mainly this chemist stuff you know! Then I started opening up and answering newbie etc questions. Looking back, I'm sure glad I came here! I'm a smarter roof cleaner for it!!!
Now, I gotta go drink wine with my wife! LOL


 I Love you too Brother biggrin We are close in age, and both veteran roof cleaners here in Florida, who battle tile roofs everyday!

Go drink some wine my friend, and I will tell you WHERE I see the roof cleaning industry leading someday. But, that's for another thread biggrin

 



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Chris

    I usually just sit back and read. I,m with chuck on this one and you could have be a chemist. I mix @35% and i have a mix i have named (my famous 50) and it has never let me down.. not once.  I was going to increase it this season but after reading this thread I dont want to mess with it. There are times I would like the mix to work faster and would like to not go back for touch ups, but i now feel my mix is just right, not to strong not to weak. 



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Jackson Contracting 

Pelham NH. 03076

Roof Cleaning Southern NH and Northern Mass

 

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Peter LeBlanc wrote:

Chuck, I'm here in SWFL tooand I always use a 35% solution of 12% SH. Have you found that solution that you use to be the "right" mix for most tile roofs in SWFL?


Welcome as a guest reader!

If you get a paid membership here, all your questions will be answered readily, by myself and others.

Many roofs in SW Florida require different mixtures and some require other additives.

Such as this one pictured. I used 2 other additives, besides SH and Water.



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Serving Englewood Rotonda North Port Cape Haze Venice Port Charlotte Punta Gorda Boca Grande Charlotte and Southern Sarasota Counties in Florida.

941-698-1959
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The moss and lichen will come off without rinsing. I treat it twice, and let the homeowners know what will happen. The orange lichen is a different story up here. That requires a different treatment, and since it most of the time seems to be at the peak of the roof, harder to take care of.

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1111 Nixon ave. nw

Grand Rapids, Mi 

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Pictures of our work



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Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:
Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 wrote:

You know Chris, this is really quite an important line of thinking!
It opens up a whole new avenue of potential sales! Algae prevention!
I have never sold this, because I hadn't known the facts that you posted!
Man! 24 years of roof cleaning in Florida and I am still learning from you on a very regular basis and I know my business! But, you are a freakin' genius with this stuff!
I came here in 1999, already thinking I knew it all, when it came to roof cleaning. I showed up [to be honest] not willing to let out much info at first. But you kept surprising me with info I didn't already know-mainly this chemist stuff you know! Then I started opening up and answering newbie etc questions. Looking back, I'm sure glad I came here! I'm a smarter roof cleaner for it!!!
Now, I gotta go drink wine with my wife! LOL


 I Love you too Brother biggrin We are close in age, and both veteran roof cleaners here in Florida, who battle tile roofs everyday!

Go drink some wine my friend, and I will tell you WHERE I see the roof cleaning industry leading someday. But, that's for another thread biggrin

 


Yup! We have our brotherly love, because we are, as you said, verteran roof cleaners here in Florida!

And yes, unlike shingled roofs, these tile roofs are a battle! Harder to walk, harder to get clean  and more runoff to fight with! furious

I fell off a roof in 1991, so I'm a wounded vet! confuse

I would be very interested in hearing where you see the roof cleaning industry leading someday!

I have my own thoughts, but, if yours is like mine, it may be best discussed in a PM! wink



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Serving Englewood Rotonda North Port Cape Haze Venice Port Charlotte Punta Gorda Boca Grande Charlotte and Southern Sarasota Counties in Florida.

941-698-1959
www.bergmanroofcleaning.com

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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Kleen Roof and Exterior Cleaning wrote:

The moss and lichen will come off without rinsing. I treat it twice, and let the homeowners know what will happen. The orange lichen is a different story up here. That requires a different treatment, and since it most of the time seems to be at the peak of the roof, harder to take care of.


 How does it come off, with the rain?



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941-698-1959
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 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNlN3R7CqI



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Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 wrote:
Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:
Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 wrote:

You know Chris, this is really quite an important line of thinking!
It opens up a whole new avenue of potential sales! Algae prevention!
I have never sold this, because I hadn't known the facts that you posted!
Man! 24 years of roof cleaning in Florida and I am still learning from you on a very regular basis and I know my business! But, you are a freakin' genius with this stuff!
I came here in 1999, already thinking I knew it all, when it came to roof cleaning. I showed up [to be honest] not willing to let out much info at first. But you kept surprising me with info I didn't already know-mainly this chemist stuff you know! Then I started opening up and answering newbie etc questions. Looking back, I'm sure glad I came here! I'm a smarter roof cleaner for it!!!
Now, I gotta go drink wine with my wife! LOL


 I Love you too Brother biggrin We are close in age, and both veteran roof cleaners here in Florida, who battle tile roofs everyday!

Go drink some wine my friend, and I will tell you WHERE I see the roof cleaning industry leading someday. But, that's for another thread biggrin

 


Yup! We have our brotherly love, because we are, as you said, verteran roof cleaners here in Florida!

And yes, unlike shingled roofs, these tile roofs are a battle! Harder to walk, harder to get clean  and more runoff to fight with! furious

I fell off a roof in 1991, so I'm a wounded vet! confuse

I would be very interested in hearing where you see the roof cleaning industry leading someday!

I have my own thoughts, but, if yours is like mine, it may be best discussed in a PM! wink


 Yes, a good idea! 



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711 Westbrook

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813 655 8777

See our website here 

Click here for more information

Here are more of our services

Watch a short video

 




 



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Yes, the rain, and the wind. It has always come off.

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I would like to know how to get the lichen and moss off. We have mainly tile or slate roofs over here and they get heavy infestations of moss and lichen. I have been struggling with getting the fungus to wash off the slate roofs, Don't know if I am using too weak a mix (2-3%) kinda afraid to use it any stronger as most of the slate are synthetic and I had issues with white fibers washing out from under the slate when I used stronger mixes. I would like to learn more from you Chris about adding sodium hydroxide. Do you think that it would fire up the mix. I got some pool shock and tried it but didn't think that there was any benefit.

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hickeys45 wrote:

I would like to know how to get the lichen and moss off. We have mainly tile or slate roofs over here and they get heavy infestations of moss and lichen. I have been struggling with getting the fungus to wash off the slate roofs, Don't know if I am using too weak a mix (2-3%) kinda afraid to use it any stronger as most of the slate are synthetic and I had issues with white fibers washing out from under the slate when I used stronger mixes. I would like to learn more from you Chris about adding sodium hydroxide. Do you think that it would fire up the mix. I got some pool shock and tried it but didn't think that there was any benefit.


 I havee done several slate roofs with strong (35 percent SH) shingle strength mix, no soaps or surfactants!

By pool shock, do you men liquid pool shock ?



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813 655 8777

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Click here for more information

Here are more of our services

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Yes Chris.

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