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Permalink · Sep 20, 2012

RE: New Member

Onarooftop · Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

They don't sell those around here either.

All you have to do is go to home depot with my way.

Gorilla tape doesn't stay waterproof for long.

Onarooftop · Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

lol,

No, but that was hilarious!
Lmao

Onarooftop · Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

I sent it to 3 people that did the contact us page. They
haven't responded back yet.

Permalink · Sep 20, 2012

Onarooftop wrote:
I don't like traveling lol.

Well, I will do one thing for everyone that has helped me out. Actually anyone.
Because I am still a little paranoid that one of my competitors may
read these posts I am not typing it on here.

It solves a common roof leak and also prevents one.

Riddle...
Maybe you already do this in your area, but I never heard of it in my area....so
What costs under 10 dollars, but can eliminate one of the most common roof leaks.
You could warranty it for 10yrs / No leak, or more. It's so simple that you will laugh,
but in my area I was the only one that started doing it, and figured it out by accident
when I didn't have anything in my truck to fix what I found. No matter how old the shingle
is, it doesn't matter? And .....no...it's not caulking. On a brand new roof this often starts leaking
around 10 yrs. 99% use caulking or replace the whole area. Every one of you will be doing this if
you aren't already. 100% Promise you that.

For the answer.....visit my website and send me "What is it?" from the "contact us" page.
Why? Because it helps my google rank everytime someone visits my site. Hey, there has to be
something in it for me too? lol

-- Edited by Onarooftop on Wednesday 19th of September 2012 06:49:49 PM

-- Edited by Onarooftop on Wednesday 19th of September 2012 06:50:09 PM

This is your business, not mine, BUT, as a roofer, do you stay up on roofing bulletins like these? They go against what you are doing I think?

Go to my website and click on "Manufacturer Specifics" and read what the manufacturers say about how a roof should be cleaned and that NO COATING should be applied.
http://www.bergmanpressurewashing.com/

-- Edited by Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 on Thursday 20th of September 2012 08:58:13 AM

-- Edited by Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 on Thursday 20th of September 2012 08:59:22 AM

-- Edited by Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 on Thursday 20th of September 2012 09:04:51 AM

Onarooftop · Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

Yes, I am in the roofing business.
Yes, I stay up on bulletins.
Yes, I follow your #12, #13, and #16 of your bulletin
50 pt. standards

ARMA Bulletin says.... "Solutions range from one cup TSP, one gallon bleach and

five gallons of water, to one cup TSP and 2.5 gallons each of bleach and water."

Does anyone use that ratio?

Fact: If not then you are in violation with this bulletin. Going off that statement

you would not win in the court of law if you are using a stronger solution.

It also says "Caution!

High pressure washing systems for algae removal should not be used"

Ok, so what is considered high pressure. 5 psi / 10psi /10,000 / 1,000,000,000,000 psi

Fact: This statement is very vague. Not specific, but the solution ratio is very specific.

In the court of law it would be easy to win when it comes to a statement that

vague.

Nobody is going to court, because if used properly, both methods would work without causing harm.,

according to your 50pt standards.

Shingles are much more durable than you think. I have seen a 300 pound roofer climb around

a shingle roof and not damage the shingles, but I can't imagine a 300 pound roofer walking on

my arm. Although I can practically stick an infancts arm under the spray of the spider.

Let's clear our minds for a minute.

Why would ARMA give consumers a ratio that doesn't work.....

Look at there mission statement:
To promote and further the sale and use of bituminous-based roofing products.

To defend and protect the asphalt roofing industry from actions that may restrict the sale of certain bituminous-based roofing products.

Does ARMA say anything about Limestone that they started putting in shingles as filler?

Why not? That wouldn't be in there best interest if they are selling the product.

They hided that for years. How about the Algae Resistance Shingles that in the fine print

are good for 10 yrs., yet most shingles in my area don't even get the algae stains until around

15 yrs.

They are group of members that all run a profitable business (Millions) Some members have

over a BILLION dollars of Revenue a year by the sale of asphalt shingles.

If everyone extended out the life of there shingles, then they would kill there profit. ARMA

is protecting big companies, not consumers. Look at the list of members. Most are shingle companies.

The ARMA bulletin is a good sales tool. I understand that, and a good salesman uses a lot of

3rd party articles.

If ARMA could put every single roof cleaning business out of business tomorrow, they would.

As far as trying to sell on the fact that pressure voids the warranty......

let''s look at the warranty that is being protected. Below is an example from

a Certainteed Shingle class action suit Calculator. This will tally up what you are compensated

because your shingle failed 10 yrs. early.

1600 sq ft. Roof

30 yr warranty

20 yrs. old and fell apart

Compensation to homeowner for the shingle breaking

down 10 yrs. early. 395 dollars

To get that money there is a huge packet of paperwork that the homeowner has to

fill out. They need to hire a roofer to remove a few shingles and mail them to the shingle

company. Deduct that out of the settlement, and if you hire a lawyer....then deduct that out

of the settlement. What's Left?

I am honest with the homeowner even when i am selling them a brand new roof. The warranties

are worthless and a scam. I won't push the warranties that they try to teach you to sell with.

99% of roof failures are caused by poor workmanship. I imagine that is the same with roof cleaning.

The shingle warranties are a scam.

Now they call all shingles Lifetime Warranty, but they didn't change

anything. It's still the same shingle that they called a 30yr. shingle.

They limit there risk by pro-rating there warranties.

Number of Squares (1 Square = 100 sq. feet)
	Warranty Term (in years)	30 years 20 years 25 years 30 years
	Number of months shingles were used

	Number of Years Used	20.00
	Warranty Months	360

		Fixed Proration	$181.33
		Variable Proration	$213.33

	TOTAL SETTLEMENT	$394.67

That comes from an actual online settlement calculator.

I have this in my sales binder to show the potential customer the truth about shingle warranties.

I am not here to promote high pressure roof cleaning. It says it huge across the

my website. I am here to learn more and to find easier/quicker ways to clean, but

what I am doing now is not hurting the shingles.

Most customers I promise them no leak or no stain for 5yrs. At the end of the five

years....It will be time for a new roof. Who do you think will get the new roof?

-- Edited by Onarooftop on Thursday 20th of September 2012 11:56:14 AM

-- Edited by Onarooftop on Thursday 20th of September 2012 02:33:36 PM

Onarooftop · Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

I forgot to comment on the roof coating.

Bergman,

You fired me up a little with your following statement. lol...........
This is your business, not mine, BUT, as a roofer, do you stay up on roofing bulletins like these?
Well I definitely read the bulletins, etc.

But, I am glad you said that, because it has now lead to some good topics
and points.

Question:

On your website it says this..............

"This ARMA article says not to allow anyone to
apply any *after coating* such as Algaecides, Fungicides,
Copper, Zinc, or other Roof treatments - not anything!

And then there is a link to an ARMA bulletin.

If you read that bulletin very carefully. Which I have. Like
I said. I do read bulletins....wink.....it does not say that at all.
That is a very misleading statement.

So, this is the second ARMA bulletin that is being used as a sales
tool, but if you read it word for word like the last one we talked about....
.....it doesn't say what people are claiming.

I could just as easily use that same article to sell roof coatings.
For example:
The first sentence........
ARMA strongly advises caution when considering the application of any type of field applied coating over installed
asphalt shingles

"Mr. Homeowner, when ARMA is saying it strongly advises caution.....that is a nice way of saying that you should leave

it to the professionals that do this every day, etc."

Read there bullet pts that end the article......

When considering coating of installed asphalt roof shingles, be sure to:

• Obtain approval from the asphalt shingle manufacturer before proceeding with a specific roof coating.

• Check with the local building department to determine whether this application is allowed.

They are actually giving you tips if you do decide to use a coating.

(It can be interpreted many different ways, unless you take it word for word. If you do take

it word for word. Then it doesn't say what you are claiming.

So, I would either remove or change your misleading statement on your website, or

don't get me revved up with your "This is your business, not mine, BUT, as a roofer, do

you stay up on roofing bulletins like these?"

Those ARMA articles both work well as sales tools and if the customer skim reads them

and doesn't take them word for word.

smile

Here is a very suprising bulletin.

This comes right from a shingle brand website.

Q: Can I paint my roof?

A: Yes. The affect of paint on shingles if very negligible. Technically, it could be argued that the paint will help the shingles weather longer. Some roof coatings that are advertised to extend product life are simply premium quality latex paints.

Back To Top

Q: Do I have to use a certain type of paint on my roof?

A: Yes. Latex paints must be used. Latex paints will do nothing more than color the shingles. On the other hand, oil- based paints may soften the shingles slightly due to the solvents that they contain. These solvents will evaporate quickly so if used carefully, there should not be any lasting effects. Generally regardless of paint used, paint weathers off of the shingles within five years. How long the paint lasts depends on the quality of the paint, the pitch of the roof, climate etc...

-- Edited by Onarooftop on Thursday 20th of September 2012 03:22:08 PM

Permalink · Sep 20, 2012

I don't fight on RCIA anymore. furious Just 1 reply.

Onarooftop, clean roofs any way you want to and put coatings on them when you are done. hmm
Continue the process you are using and forget about anything we do here. Heck, if you destroy a few roofs and get the rest on their way to needing replacement, then you get to make the big roofer money, replacing it! wink MOST EVERYTHING ANY OF US SAY, is an opinion. My opinion about roofers who clean roofs is crude, but mine:

Roofers who start cleaning roofs, must be failing in the roofing business and figure, "If I get up on a bunch of roofs to clean them, I will be able to talk a % of the homeowners into roof repairs and replacement. Like you said ---

"Mr. Homeowner, when ARMA is saying it strongly advises caution.....that is a nice way of saying that you should leave

it to the professionals that do this every day, etc." "But to tell you the truth, Mr Homeowner, you would be ahead at this point if I just replaced your roof with a LIFETIME WARRANY roof!!!!!" { I can feel the excitement building! }

"No? Ok, but I have to mention, while I was just up there looking at your roof for cleaning, I see a couple of trouble spots, that will need repairing. I can clean the roof for $500.00 and WHILE I'M HERE [salesman talk] repair your roof in both areas for another $1800.00"

I AM WRONG ABOUT STUFF ALL THE TIME, BUT IN MY 23 YEARS IN THIS BUSINESS THAT'S WHAT I HAVE SEEN. ROOFERS ARE "OFTEN" NOT ALWAYS, LIKE AMBULANCE CHASERS, CHASING LITTLE OLD LADIES, SHOWING THEM VIDEO CLIPS AND PHOTOS THEY TAKE WHILE UP ON THEIR ROOFS.

I have seen that exact scenario many times! Especially on mobile homes, where they can open a seam and put their hand in. It just needs sealing and painting, but a ROOF OVER is better money!

Like my hero Forest Gump said. "AND THAT'S ALL I GOT TO SAY ABOUT THAT.

My point is made, your point was made, I am done.

No further comment from me, so you are free to have at it! It's a lot easier to win a fight, when noone is hitting back anyway. That makes you the winner! smile smile smile

-- Edited by Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 on Thursday 20th of September 2012 05:27:32 PM

Permalink · Guest

you make a very strong aurgument as far as the bulletin and warranty is concerned.

Roof Cleaning New Jersey · Sep 20, 2012

Your new nickname is "Firecracker". Dude fill out the rest of your profile so Chuck can call you by name while you 2 hash it out.

Let this all stay in good spirits everyone. The guy paid his membership dues and obviously doesnt lie down without a fight. Its all good when its civil. Agree to disagree.

Onarooftop · Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

You are wrong with both of your guesses. The info is on one of my
websites-Brink kanga roof

I am doing what #12,13,16 on your RCIA 50pt standards says I can do.

Sorry you have met a lot of bad roofers. Most of the good and
honest people in the roofing industry aren't found in bars.

Your whole sales pitch is off of two ARMA bulletins that do not say what
you are claiming they say. Read them word for word like I said earlier.

I understand you are using them both as a sales tool. No problem, just don't start believing
and telling me it says something that it doesn't.

If you click on make an appointment on my website, you will see that they can make an appointment
under (roof Cleaning / Roof Repairs / Roof Replacements / or warranty appointment)

If someone chooses a roof cleaning appointment, then I understand that is what they want or think
they want.

but I recommend whatever I believe is in the best.
interest of the homeowner and then let them decide. Everybody should show
video's and pictures to there customers. Otherwise they are making decisions
on something they can't even see. I say don't make the decision for them.

If I went to a home that had green shingles only a year old and they wanted me to
remove the and put on white ones. That is there decision. Do I say, no it's only
one year old and argue. Call them nuts. Make them feel stupid. No, it's there money.
If that's what they want to do then that's fine with me.

Educate the homeowner - do a good inspection - show them all of the inspection results -
Give them some options and let them choose.

Example - Leak in a valley - Roof is 12 yrs. old. Roofer 1 says I will fix it for 200 bucks and
uses some tar and mesh.

Roofer 2 says I'll do it for 1,200. I'll remove the shingles and install a new valley with ice guard/etc.

Who's ripping them off- Roofer 1 comes back once a year for the next 8 yrs. (20yr. roof) (1,600) without inflation.'
or even worse they end up noticing 5 yrs. down the road that it is leaking again. So now...factor in the drywall damages
and insulation that is ruined etc.

Roofer 2 gave them a warranty that would last them 8 yrs. for (1,200)
What's sad is 90% of the roofing company owners are choosing #1 and not offering #2.
That's a scam if you ask me. Offer them both. Don't decide for the homeowner or you are a pushy salesman.

I like your video, but doesn't that solution/spray become slippery when you are walking directly on it? Especially
when it is shown from the side view in the end. Looks steep from the side view.

Click here and you will see where they sell what I refer to as a spider cleaning machine

I just call it spider because I think it sounds better. I also don't shoot the chemical out of the machine. Instead

I use back pack sprayers. The specs for the machine comply with the RCIA 50 pt. number 12,13, and 16

-- Edited by Onarooftop on Thursday 20th of September 2012 10:48:39 PM

-- Edited by Onarooftop on Thursday 20th of September 2012 10:51:24 PM

Permalink · Guest

Chuck you have a good aurgument as well. I love drama.

Liberty SoftWash · Sep 21, 2012

We need a RCIA boxing ring!!!

Permalink · Guest

Roof Cleaning Long Island N.Y 516-763-4108 wrote:
Thanks I have seen that but they keep directing me to a dealer down here who says he never heard of it. I did gorilla tape one for free for some old lady because rain was coming in. I would love to have a couple of those but I cant get them....any help in getting some I would be very thankful.

Pat- check to see if you have any of these suppliers local to you:

1. Bradco

2. Allied Building Products

3. ABC Supply

If so, you should be able to find them through one of these guys. Also PM me your adress or city/town and zip, I'll try and find a supplier close to you.

Onarooftop · Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

by the way, I am on my phone now and the website looks and works real well on it. 1. I said I abide by the rules in RCIA 50pt. Standards on pressure. Unless those are old and you are changing them? Not being a smart butt. I am seriously asking? 2. I am a pretty calm guy. I've learned to fire people without almost getting in a fist fight like when I was younger. Lol When you act like I don't know or read about my industry, you knew it would get under my skin. Lol. 3. I am not here to be against you. I am here to be with you. I am sure I will adjust some things, and I planned on it. 4. I will respond to the rest when I get home, but what I posted was facts. Debates are more productive then argumentative nonsense. lol. Be nice. stick to the facts......wink!

Roof Cleaning New Jersey · Sep 21, 2012

Rooftop: Rule number 51, stop winking at Chuck.

Permalink · Sep 21, 2012

Roof Cleaning New Jersey wrote:
Rooftop: Rule number 51, stop winking at Chuck.

biggrin biggrin biggrin Now that there REALLY is funny!!! biggrin biggrin biggrin

Onarooftop · Premium Member Roof Cleaning Institute of America

Yeah,
That was hilarious.

Hey, you don't need to have any of those suppliers. Read my original post.
Every home improvement store in the U.S. will work.

Permalink · Sep 21, 2012

Moving on with no fight, just a discussion: I have a question.

I looked for a "Spider machine" online and can't find one.

I watched 2 of your videos and all I see is a small flat surface cleaning machine [orange-looks like the Home Dept $69.00 12" homeowner model.

And a yellow pitch witch.

NOW I AM NOT BEING SNOTTY HERE smile

Why are you referring to a pitch witch and a cement surface cleaner [flat surface cleaner] as a spider machine?

Is it because both have a bad name in the roof cleaning industry, for blasting granules off of roofs?

Remember, I am not being nasty, just asking about what you say you use in your 3 part process. In the video, I see chemical being applied with a pump up sprayer, the machines blasting the algae off and a [garden hose?] actually rinsing. AGAIN, not being snotty, but during the hose rinse, from what I can see of the shingles, it APPEARS that most of the granules have been blasted off?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjtew1WApMk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROySPwuZ_Wk

This is the RCIA 1 part process and it won't knock a granule off and ya, the old, ugly guy is me. { I was so ugly when I was born, my mother wouldn't breat feed me, she said we'd just be friends biggrin } I did this roof last week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm_j5Xd01pA

Roof Cleaning New Jersey · Sep 21, 2012

-- Edited by Roof Cleaning New Jersey on Friday 21st of September 2012 09:31:06 AM

The Roof Cleaning Institute Of America Training & Certification Forum "Find A Certified Roof Cleaner Directory"

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"Find A Certified Roof Cleaner Directory"