Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 wrote:
Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:
There has been some debate recently about IF it really is harmful to pressure wash roofs made from shingles. Both the ARMA and the Canadian ARMA warn against high pressure, but the question remains HOW much pressure does it really take to harm a shingle roof ? This question reared it's head during a recent discussion on Certification. We do not wish to alienate our friends at PWNA who pressure wash roofs. However, we are the RCIA, and like to think we set the standards for roof cleaning. W/o giving my feelings on this subject, how do YOU feel, as an RCIA Member ?
I am both a no pressure roof cleaner and a pressure washer. I started in business in 1978. I pressure washed all roofs until 1991, when I learned to clean them without pressure. { I thought I invented the idea, but within a year, I found another company doing it already, with a better system } Anyway, I pressure washed many hundreds of shingled roofs, prior to our current method. I can state matter of factly, that a pressure washing machine, can not have the psi turned down low enough to clean a roof and not take a good % of the granules off with the algae. JUST CAN'T BE DONE! I tried all pressure settings and if the algae came off, so did the granules! A cement surface cleaner [like the roof shampoo guy uses ] is even worse! It takes a considerable amount of psi just to make it function and it's jets shoot sideways-really blowing off the granules! I tried that just once and only did a single strip down a shingled roof and finished it by regular pressure washing. That was back in 1998 - 1990 For no pressure roof cleaning, I use from 25% - 35% chlorine, plus about 1/2 gallon Ammonyx Lo and unless I brush a granule off with my foot They all remain in place, with only the algae missing! Remember, I was a pressure washer long before I was a no pressure roof cleaner and I still pressure clean houses, pool enclosures, decks and driveways, just about every day! Just not roofs! Chuck Bergman Soft Wash Roof Cleaning & Pressure washing.
Me too Chuck. I washed roofs the wrong way. What came out the downspouts was no good. I stopped selling them. Till I found the RCIA!
Ya, I sure feel better inside when I drive away from a shingled roof I clean now! Of course, I didn't like seeing my pressure washer wash all those granules into the gutters back then, but it didn't actually bother my conscience, because that was the way it was done then and I knew of nothing else to do for the homeowner? Chuck
__________________
Serving Englewood Rotonda North Port Cape Haze Venice Port Charlotte Punta Gorda Boca Grande Charlotte and Southern Sarasota Counties in Florida.
Chuck I couldn't agree with more, When you clean a roof with a pressure washer the roof kinda looks streaked "like where you get a little to close with the tip" Its hard to clean a roof and keep the same distance away from the roof with the tip. keeping it nice and uniform. There's been cases or should i say 2cases where i had to use a pressure washer. and the results just aren't the same as non pressure roof cleaning. Check out my before and afters on face book A+ Cleaning/Painting Services.
I have been a member of PWNA for many years and now also a member of RICA. PWNA has never recommended a way to clean roofs. Each organization has its strong & weak points. I would like to see RCIA become as organized and strong as PWNA. That will come with time. The day of the free loader needs to end and stop giving all the info away to non paying members. It takes dues to help an organization grow, not free loaders. Laws will be made that will make our job difficult and only a strong organization can defeat them. PWNA has done a good job with that.
Chris, do you have the url to the ARMA document about not using high pressure on roofs. One of the low ballers in our area uses a pitch witch with a pressure washer. In particular I would like to find out more info as to weather the pressure from that device is acceptable or not and some proof either way.
In all honesty I dont know why anyone would want to power wash a shingle roof when you can clean it without pressure. Its probably the same guy that uses a wand on an enormous driveway.
APW started as a pressure washing business. I knew better than even thinking about using our washer on a roof.
The only ways I could see making our method of roof cleaning better would be a detergent that would kill the plants on the roof without harming the ones on the ground and a pump that would shoot A LONG ways.
In my opinion as a roofer its not a good idea to pressure wash a roof,especially 3-tab shingles,they get brittle as they get older, and when you start pressure washing in the valley's,well lets just hope the valley's are installed right!The RCIA is the right way to clean roofs, non-pressure is much faster and safer,kills the algae,and keeps on cleaning the roof when your gone.All I can say is I'm glad I found the RCIA!
Bergman Roof Cleaning Port Charlotte FL 941-698-1959 wrote:
Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:
There has been some debate recently about IF it really is harmful to pressure wash roofs made from shingles. Both the ARMA and the Canadian ARMA warn against high pressure, but the question remains HOW much pressure does it really take to harm a shingle roof ? This question reared it's head during a recent discussion on Certification. We do not wish to alienate our friends at PWNA who pressure wash roofs. However, we are the RCIA, and like to think we set the standards for roof cleaning. W/o giving my feelings on this subject, how do YOU feel, as an RCIA Member ?
I am both a no pressure roof cleaner and a pressure washer. I started in business in 1978. I pressure washed all roofs until 1991, when I learned to clean them without pressure. { I thought I invented the idea, but within a year, I found another company doing it already, with a better system } Anyway, I pressure washed many hundreds of shingled roofs, prior to our current method. I can state matter of factly, that a pressure washing machine, can not have the psi turned down low enough to clean a roof and not take a good % of the granules off with the algae. JUST CAN'T BE DONE! I tried all pressure settings and if the algae came off, so did the granules! A cement surface cleaner [like the roof shampoo guy uses ] is even worse! It takes a considerable amount of psi just to make it function and it's jets shoot sideways-really blowing off the granules! I tried that just once and only did a single strip down a shingled roof and finished it by regular pressure washing. That was back in 1998 - 1990 For no pressure roof cleaning, I use from 25% - 35% chlorine, plus about 1/2 gallon Ammonyx Lo and unless I brush a granule off with my foot They all remain in place, with only the algae missing! Remember, I was a pressure washer long before I was a no pressure roof cleaner and I still pressure clean houses, pool enclosures, decks and driveways, just about every day! Just not roofs! Chuck Bergman Soft Wash Roof Cleaning & Pressure washing.
I have been a member of PWNA for many years and now also a member of RICA. PWNA has never recommended a way to clean roofs. Each organization has its strong & weak points. I would like to see RCIA become as organized and strong as PWNA. That will come with time. The day of the free loader needs to end and stop giving all the info away to non paying members. It takes dues to help an organization grow, not free loaders. Laws will be made that will make our job difficult and only a strong organization can defeat them. PWNA has done a good job with that.
Chris, do you have the url to the ARMA document about not using high pressure on roofs. One of the low ballers in our area uses a pitch witch with a pressure washer. In particular I would like to find out more info as to weather the pressure from that device is acceptable or not and some proof either way.
Here is the ARMA Roof Cleaning Method in a PDF file Marcus. The problem of giving information away to non paying members is a vexing one. I have almost 4000 posts on PWI and nearly that many on The Grime Scene about roof cleaning! The information on how to clean a roof is already out there. To close this forum to non members and search engines will only hurt us. The Premium Members Section is closed, and the very latest roof cleaning secrets are only found there. If you look at the home page of the forum, you can see all the people online. Many times we will have a lot of guests. It is wrong to automatically assume they are your competitors . Many of these guests are potential customers, here looking for a roof cleaner!
I have been a member of PWNA for many years and now also a member of RICA. PWNA has never recommended a way to clean roofs. Each organization has its strong & weak points. I would like to see RCIA become as organized and strong as PWNA. That will come with time. The day of the free loader needs to end and stop giving all the info away to non paying members. It takes dues to help an organization grow, not free loaders. Laws will be made that will make our job difficult and only a strong organization can defeat them. PWNA has done a good job with that.
Chris, do you have the url to the ARMA document about not using high pressure on roofs. One of the low ballers in our area uses a pitch witch with a pressure washer. In particular I would like to find out more info as to weather the pressure from that device is acceptable or not and some proof either way.
Marcus,
Here's a good article I found while doing some homework today. It is from 2007 and some of the tings she states aren't right but it has a bunch of different methods for cleaning in the article. I hope it's helpful. I found it looking for a better pdf. Kim posted in the premium section written by JL Jacobs & R. Thakur, "How Advances in Algae-resistant roofing adress the growing roof algae problem."
Roof Cleaning Pro Greensboro NC (336)362 7659 wrote:
Yes, Chris already tried to close the forum down and it killed our search ranking which was at the time #1 in the world for roof cleaning on google.
This was back in March 2009. We were able to recover our 1st page rank but have not been able to reach #1 like we did before.
I KNOW We have never fully recovered from that terrible mistake However, I do understand our members not wanting our most sacred info getting out. I think a reasonable compromise is this. Let's move ONLY our very most sacred and secret threads into the closed premium members section, hidden from the free loaders As long as we do not go NUTS, we may be OK as far as SEO goes ? Unfortunately, these threads are indexed by Google, and provide backlinks for both the forum AND the posters in the threads.
Perhaps a better compromise is this, NEVER post any top secret roof cleaning info outside the closed members only forum, from this day forward ?
Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:
Roof Cleaning Pro Greensboro NC (336)362 7659 wrote:
Yes, Chris already tried to close the forum down and it killed our search ranking which was at the time #1 in the world for roof cleaning on google.
This was back in March 2009. We were able to recover our 1st page rank but have not been able to reach #1 like we did before.
I KNOW We have never fully recovered from that terrible mistake However, I do understand our members not wanting our most sacred info getting out. I think a reasonable compromise is this. Let's move ONLY our very most sacred and secret threads into the closed premium members section, hidden from the free loaders As long as we do not go NUTS, we may be OK as far as SEO goes ? Unfortunately, these threads are indexed by Google, and provide backlinks for both the forum AND the posters in the threads.
Perhaps a better compromise is this, NEVER post any top secret roof cleaning info outside the closed members only forum, from this day forward ?
That sure sounds like reasonableness to me! So, from now on, when new pumps, new chemicals, new anything is discussed, we will do it on the Premium Member board then! Good thinking! Chuck
__________________
Serving Englewood Rotonda North Port Cape Haze Venice Port Charlotte Punta Gorda Boca Grande Charlotte and Southern Sarasota Counties in Florida.
Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:
Roof Cleaning Pro Greensboro NC (336)362 7659 wrote:
Yes, Chris already tried to close the forum down and it killed our search ranking which was at the time #1 in the world for roof cleaning on google.
This was back in March 2009. We were able to recover our 1st page rank but have not been able to reach #1 like we did before.
I KNOW We have never fully recovered from that terrible mistake However, I do understand our members not wanting our most sacred info getting out. I think a reasonable compromise is this. Let's move ONLY our very most sacred and secret threads into the closed premium members section, hidden from the free loaders As long as we do not go NUTS, we may be OK as far as SEO goes ? Unfortunately, these threads are indexed by Google, and provide backlinks for both the forum AND the posters in the threads.
Perhaps a better compromise is this, NEVER post any top secret roof cleaning info outside the closed members only forum, from this day forward ?
I have considered just posting in the members section only, not that I have some special secret to offer, but I don't need the SEO. The open forum, in my opinion, shouldn't be a free ride now that we have a paid membership. Nothing personal just business.
Non pressure or no pressure means just that. Personally I don't own a pressure washer. That's not to say pressure washing doesn't have it's place, just don't think it is designed for roof cleaning.
There is a picture on my web site of a tile job started with a pressure washer and they called me to take the job over.
I am not saying you cannot clean a roof with a pressure washer, but I know of three roofs in Des Moines that are being replaced as a result of someone using a pressure washer. I know because they called me to see if I could correct the issue, which I couldn't.
Why even have the debate. Everyone knows soft wash, non pressure or no pressure is effective. This is RCIA and I joined because of the effective process which is non pressure or no pressure. My customer are very happy with the process I use, non pressure!
What did Kim say, " if it's not broke why fix it."
I can tell you from personal experience that granular loss can happen as low as 200-300 psi. So, I'm not sure how people think they can use a pressure washer on shingles.
Now before somebody gets there panties in a wad, yes I know that you can use a 4030 tip on a 4000 psi machine and get away with.
But I think the important variable in this question is why are you using pressure in the first place? Is it because the sodium hydroxide based roof cleaner doesn't come off without it?
Because we all here at the RCIA know that our soulutions clean all by them selfs and a simple rain can rinse it off.
My personal opinion is 100 psi max for shingles. 1000 psi max for Tile. Since I know I can clean them both with between 45 and 60 psi... that's what I do.
Ive seen granule loss with a garden hose. Moss. And recently some of it I just picked up, and threw off the roof??? Time of year???? Diferent species off moss???? The plot thickens!!!
-- Edited by gutterdog on Saturday 5th of March 2011 09:11:11 PM
Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:
Roof Cleaning Pro Greensboro NC (336)362 7659 wrote:
Yes, Chris already tried to close the forum down and it killed our search ranking which was at the time #1 in the world for roof cleaning on google.
This was back in March 2009. We were able to recover our 1st page rank but have not been able to reach #1 like we did before.
I KNOW We have never fully recovered from that terrible mistake However, I do understand our members not wanting our most sacred info getting out. I think a reasonable compromise is this. Let's move ONLY our very most sacred and secret threads into the closed premium members section, hidden from the free loaders As long as we do not go NUTS, we may be OK as far as SEO goes ? Unfortunately, these threads are indexed by Google, and provide backlinks for both the forum AND the posters in the threads.
Perhaps a better compromise is this, NEVER post any top secret roof cleaning info outside the closed members only forum, from this day forward ?
I might have fix for this too. Like what we did with helping small groups friends out before.
Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:
Roof Cleaning Pro Greensboro NC (336)362 7659 wrote:
Yes, Chris already tried to close the forum down and it killed our search ranking which was at the time #1 in the world for roof cleaning on google.
This was back in March 2009. We were able to recover our 1st page rank but have not been able to reach #1 like we did before.
I KNOW We have never fully recovered from that terrible mistake However, I do understand our members not wanting our most sacred info getting out. I think a reasonable compromise is this. Let's move ONLY our very most sacred and secret threads into the closed premium members section, hidden from the free loaders As long as we do not go NUTS, we may be OK as far as SEO goes ? Unfortunately, these threads are indexed by Google, and provide backlinks for both the forum AND the posters in the threads.
Perhaps a better compromise is this, NEVER post any top secret roof cleaning info outside the closed members only forum, from this day forward ?
I have considered just posting in the members section only, not that I have some special secret to offer, but I don't need the SEO. The open forum, in my opinion, shouldn't be a free ride now that we have a paid membership. Nothing personal just business.
I think the only damage free way to clean an asphalt shingle roof is to soft wash it. I really don't believe that it's a case of "six of one & 1/2 dozen of the other" either. It's as different as night and day because you are stripping protection (granules) off an asphalt shingle anytime you interact with it. Obviously, the more pressure you apply, the more protection you remove. I also think it's nice to have a discussion where different points of view are welcomed and the discussion goes on long enough to hit a second page and there is no drama. That's refreshing.
Edited to add picture.
-- Edited by Roof Stain Removers on Saturday 5th of March 2011 10:50:28 PM