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Post Info TOPIC: Chemicals Pushed By Air, no pump required.


National Cleaning Expo's

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Chemicals Pushed By Air, no pump required.
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The fiberglass Tank is driven by Air compressor.

This machine designed to spray Acid. I was wondering if you could Spray Bleach?

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*Tim Allen Tool Time Voice* Ohhhhhh ohhh ohhhhh. Looks nice!

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Phil that was awesome!! And so is that beastual looking device!

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Acid and Sodium Hypochlorite are different. Maybe if the tank was made out of really really thick Bronze or Stainless, or better yet Hastelloy!  Plus, the tank is small, and will be a PITA always filling it! A BIG metal tank of stainless or even Thick Bronze will weigh a ton, and be expensive I would think. Here in Tampa, they will steal it, just  for the scrap roof cleaning

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I just did some checking,, and most stainless tanks are only 50 psi rated, and most are LESS. But good thinking Ron !

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What about PVC pipe 12" diameter?

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so here are some math for you.
12" pipe
1' long holds 5.9 Gal
4' long holds 23.5 Gal
5' long holds 29.4 Gal
8' long holds 47 Gal
10' long holds 58.8 Gal

so here is how long your pressure tank would have to be and 12" pipe cost 18$ per foot


-- Edited by Bee Clean Pressure Cleaning LLC on Saturday 29th of January 2011 08:18:44 PM

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Roof Cleaning Institute Of America Master Certified Roof Cleaning Instructor

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Here is a link to max working pressure and burst pressure for PVC.
I would use Schedule 80.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pvc-cpvc-pipes-pressures-d_796.html

Chris

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So at 73F

S40 pipe can hold 79PSI
S80 pipe can hold 137PSI

still sounds good!

RIGHT?

-- Edited by Bee Clean Pressure Cleaning LLC on Saturday 29th of January 2011 09:02:10 PM

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Bee Clean Pressure Cleaning LLC wrote:

so here are some math for you.
12" pipe
1' long holds 5.9 Gal
4' long holds 23.5 Gal
5' long holds 29.4 Gal
8' long holds 47 Gal
10' long holds 58.8 Gal

so here is how long your pressure tank would have to be and 12" pipe cost 18$ per foot


-- Edited by Bee Clean Pressure Cleaning LLC on Saturday 29th of January 2011 08:18:44 PM



Funk That! here is 24 inch PVC!
Now, what we will need is screw fittings to withstand the pressure I think ?  A 5 foot length of 24 inch will hold about 100 gallons, but we still use a chemical tank, and simply "load up" the PVC container when we need to spray! The air compressors unloader will act as a regulator. I am a little concerned about the Chlorine attacking the PVC Cement, but if we tapped the PVC for screw fittings, it MIGHT work ?

Since my friend Ron Musgraves came UP with this idea initially for a passive air powered sprayer, let's call it the "Ronair Sprayer" roof cleaning
I BET it will spray better then the 100 psi air pressure would indicate since there are no lossy valves, diapraghms, etc, etc. It is straight fluid vs fluid (air IS a fluid) BTW. In effect, it is a hydraulic sprayer!

 



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its geting pricey. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=65748&catid=727
its 24" S80 for $100
PER FOOT.
but i guess it will last longer than a pump that sellls for 380$ and you can have a higher psi.

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Read this from a physcics forum, LOL

May I share a story about a PVC vacuum/pressure device and safety?

A few years ago I was working with precision sandblasters, part of the process was venting our 170 PSI air/sand mixture into a vacuum dust collector system. The problem was that we needed a good free flowing vent that could with stand the abrasion caused by our 25micon aluminum oxide dust (sand). My solution was to feed our vent lines into the end of long straight section of pipe which was evacuated by the vacuum system.

I envisioned something less then .5m long. The prototype ended up being something over 1m long and, even better, when the tech I was working with, slipped the end cap with the vent hose fittings onto the 2" PVC pipe, it jammed as PVC seems to do. We thought, heck its a vacuum system what is the problem. So we installed it WITHOUT GLUE!

Didn't I mention 170psi? Well eventually, unknown to us, the long tube filled with sand clogging the system. It just so happens this cannon with its end cap was mounted horizontal at just below belt height. Of course the day came when the tube was hit with a burst of 170PSI air/sand which blew the jammed on end cap off, hitting one of our more understanding operators exactly where no man wants to be hit. The ensuing safety investigation was an embarrassment and a lesson in attention to detail. We ended up with a 1' long section of steel pipe with a screwed on end cap.

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813 655 8777

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So ur saying? It's a go or no go.

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RCIA Founder

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Bee Clean Pressure Cleaning LLC wrote:

So ur saying? It's a go or no go.



Well .... read this

The good and bad of PVC

Because of these drawbacks, compressed air system users have been seeking alternatives to traditional metal pipe and tubing. Over the past five to ten years, industrial plastics have been developed that present an attractive alternative to metal piping.

PVC piping is relatively inexpensive, easy to install, lightweight, and corrosion resistant. However, PVC has one major drawback. It is brittle. An inadvertent impact could cause the piping to shatter, endangering surrounding personnel. Most PVC pipe manufacturers warn against using PVC for compressed air service due to potential liability from such failures. The Plastic Piping Institute, in their Recommendation B, states that plastic piping used for compressed air transport in above-ground systems should be protected in shatter-proof encasements, unless otherwise recommended by the manufacturer. In many states, the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA) has stepped in and regulated against using brittle plastics such as PVC in these applications, and additional states are following suit.

The strictest standard in the country has been issued by California's OSHA. It includes five tests, as well as a requirement for comprehensive marking of the pipe and fittings. These tests include long-term hydrostatic, short-term burst, and three specialized impact tests -- all to ensure the safety and ductility of the system. The impact tests include striking frozen, pressurized pipe with both blunt and sharp strikers, using various forces, and striking a frozen pipe with a hemispherical striker, using various forces.

Manufacturers are required to present the results of these tests for review upon request. When specifying a thermoplastic system, for safety's sake it is important that your supplier meets Cal-OSHA regulations, regardless of the state in which the system will be installed.

An attractive alternative to PVC

New thermoplastic piping systems -- using high-density polyethylene (HDPE), for example -- overcome the brittleness problems associated with PVC. They efficiently and reliably deliver compressed air with lower material and installation costs and longer service life than with metal systems. They offer a margin of safety missing from PVC.

These new thermoplastics are safe because they expand at the point of failure, tearing open rather than fragmenting dangerously. They do not accumulate scale on their ID, nor does pitting or corrosion occur, and they are unaffected by synthetic and mineral oils used in compressors.

The internal surface of thermoplastic piping typically has a roughness factor, C, of about 150 to 165. Metal piping systems, on the other hand, start out with an interior surface roughness factor of about 120. This factor is inversely proportional to friction head losses: as C increases, system pressure drop over a given length at a given flow decreases. This means that when installed, the ID of thermoplastic pipe and fittings is smoother, so lower pressure drop occurs than with metal piping components. Moreover, because it is less prone to accumulating particulate contamination, and corrosion does not occur, the ID of thermoplastic piping systems remains cleaner and smoother.

The substantially rougher surface of metal piping allows contaminants to collect in the millions of tiny pits and crevices on the ID of the pipe. In addition, moisture and other contaminants can react with the metal itself and produce corrosion products that also accumulate. Over time, these contaminants and corrosion particles continue to collect and build up to form scale. As the scale builds, it roughens the ID of the pipe and fittings, which increases pressure drops. Ultimately, the higher pressure drop increases the demand on the system's compressors, which increases operating cost. Moreover, pipe scale particles can dislodge and damage equipment when carried downstream. Because thermoplastics do not promote the formation of pipe scale -- even when exposed continuously to condensation -- these problems do not exist with thermoplastic piping systems.

Installation advantages

Thermoplastic systems also offer low cost and quick installation. Heat-fusion welding makes pipe joining quick, easy, and extremely reliable because there are no threads to leak. Unlike PVC, no glues or cements are used, so there is no cure time. Testing can be conducted immediately after installation. In contrast, some glues may require as long as 24 hours to fully cure before full system pressure can be applied. In addition, fusion welding can be performed in any environmental condition using simple, lightweight tools without prior experience. These tools are available for low-cost rental or purchase.

A cost comparison shows that black iron is less expensive than standard thermoplastics. However, in tool set up and installation comparisons the plastic system takes only half the tool set-up time and one third the time to weld each joint. Moreover, in many pipe sizes the weight of black iron is 10 times that of thermoplastic pipe, making iron components more difficult to maneuver, support, and install, especially in larger sizes.

Thermoplastics are even more cost effective when compared to copper. The price of thermoplastic pipe is less than copper, although the cost of the fittings is a little more. Overall, the total systems appear similar, but, again, the real savings appear in the installation time and maintenance of the system. Soldering of copper pipe is much more time consuming than the socket fusion method used with thermoplastics.

When done properly, soldering a joint can take from five to seven minutes by a well-trained and experienced plumber or mechanical contractor. If done improperly, the joints can leak, especially in large-diameter systems. On the other hand, unlike soldering, socket fusion can be performed in less than two minutes by anyone with minimal training, and with less chance for error. The result is a strong, leak-free joint every time.

Considerations for thermoplastics

An important consideration when designing a thermoplastic compressed air system and selecting the appropriate thermoplastic material is thermal expansion. Thermoplastics expand and contract from thermal changes more than metals do. This must be taken into account during system layout by allowing for expansion at corners or by building in expansion loops and offsets.

Another important consideration is pressure rating. Be sure to select a material and construction with an adequate margin of safety for the pressures to which your system will be exposed. In the case of a safety failure or a temperature rise, a system should still perform at the operating pressure.


 



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I am sticking with a pump sorry I am out!

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Chad 561-699-4685
Josh 561-699-4696
New Company Always Doing It Right!!!
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