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Washed-up · guest

RE: Ideas and discussion on the 50 point program.

Roof Cleaning Missouri 417-230-8103 · Guest

yes I do , Instead of stating in the 50 point program
Members shall be required,
it should say
memeber are rcommended

this will clear up alot of misconceptions

Roof Cleaning Virginia 540-949-6277 · Roof Cleaning Institute of America Premium Member/MODERATOR

Reliable Roof Cleaning Jacksonville FL wrote:

AC Lockyer wrote:

Well then does everyone feel we could pass the first 10 points if we put that section to vote? Id really like to get this done and start REALLY finding the sticking points.

AC

I have always felt that the standard was much larger (50 points) than it needed to be. After watching AC's video I think I know how it got there. It was determined that there were 5 areas to be addressed and that each area should have 10 points. So the size was determined before the content was really developed. Therefore, I think things were added that don't need to be there just to get to 10 points per item.

As written, I would not vote yes for Section One with the way it is written. I don't expect RCIA to be as intrusive in my company as to tell me that uniforms must be worn, certain employees must wear badges, my website must be only for certain purposes, I have to run background checks, I must use a consumer mediation service, must present customer with proposals, must present scope of work, etc, etc, etc.

Let's try to keep this simple. The larger and more convoluted the standard becomes, especially in later sections regarding inspections, maintenance and education requirements, the standard will become unattainable.

Respectfully,
Charles

From the moment I read the "standard" this is exactly how I felt. I have been asked what to do and I keep saying, start small and go from there. If it is supposed to be a living document then have it start in a smaller form and grow from there. Highlight the important stuff and stay out of our everyday business operations. I would not vote yes on the first 10! Most here know my feelings on this.

As far as clarification last night, with over 1 1/2 hours, all I came away with was a sales pitch and not once did I hear that the vote shows that the majority didn't like it. With that information it needs to be dissected line item and voted on now that we have something to work from. It might take some time but at least it will be something that will work and not chase good people away.

Roof Cleaning Bradenton FL 941-822-2454 · Guest

The clarification came for me was the fact that it is the beginning of the 50 points, to have guidelines to be "certified" it needs a starting point somewhere.
I think the problem was the gray areas and needs to be written a little more precise within the language of the document.
From what I came away with was the 50 points were going to be broken down into segments and discussed then voted on. Anyone correct me if I am wrong. If this is the way it will be renegotiated then I feel it is a solid plan to work out the bugs.

I personally could walk away from the whole RCIA thing and still make a decent living. I don't "need" RCIA and neither does many other companies. The point is making a choice to be here and to be here includes being involved in the future of RCIA for me anyhow.
There were many premium members that cared less to vote and I will assume some are getting what they want from this site and that's the extent of it.

My choice to stay on board is to be able to become certified and with that in hand I will beat my competitor. I will not play the wheel and deal with customers, I would rather walk than get into a bidding war with some low baller. I will be able to be up to date with the technology to make things run faster and smoother. I will be able to tweek the sales techniques. and so on.
In being certified it will push me to be more than what I might ask of our company based on the short sighted knowledge I have.

In running a business for 28 years, I can honestly say, while we are excellent at what we do, we have not built an empire ( no,that is not my goal either).
What I can say is we have been running our own game and making our own rules, and for our new company, it is time to step it up some, certification and all the requirements that go with it will be a step in a different direction.
Kim R

Roof Cleaning Cleveland (216) 323-0552 · Dec 27, 2010

Roof Cleaning Blue Ridge VA 540-949-6277 wrote:

Reliable Roof Cleaning Jacksonville FL wrote:

AC Lockyer wrote:

Well then does everyone feel we could pass the first 10 points if we put that section to vote? Id really like to get this done and start REALLY finding the sticking points.

AC

I have always felt that the standard was much larger (50 points) than it needed to be. After watching AC's video I think I know how it got there. It was determined that there were 5 areas to be addressed and that each area should have 10 points. So the size was determined before the content was really developed. Therefore, I think things were added that don't need to be there just to get to 10 points per item.

As written, I would not vote yes for Section One with the way it is written. I don't expect RCIA to be as intrusive in my company as to tell me that uniforms must be worn, certain employees must wear badges, my website must be only for certain purposes, I have to run background checks, I must use a consumer mediation service, must present customer with proposals, must present scope of work, etc, etc, etc.

Let's try to keep this simple. The larger and more convoluted the standard becomes, especially in later sections regarding inspections, maintenance and education requirements, the standard will become unattainable.

Respectfully,
Charles

From the moment I read the "standard" this is exactly how I felt. I have been asked what to do and I keep saying, start small and go from there. If it is supposed to be a living document then have it start in a smaller form and grow from there. Highlight the important stuff and stay out of our everyday business operations. I would not vote yes on the first 10! Most here know my feelings on this.

As far as clarification last night, with over 1 1/2 hours, all I came away with was a sales pitch and not once did I hear that the vote shows that the majority didn't like it. With that information it needs to be dissected line item and voted on now that we have something to work from. It might take some time but at least it will be something that will work and not chase good people away.

Couldn't agree more.

garyw · Dec 27, 2010

For those of you that think RCIA is getting too far into your business, just realize that all we are trying to do is help you realize what CAN happen to you and your business. Even though you don't want any help and think there is NO laws that can apply to you, read the link here.

http://eofficesafetytips.com/OSHA-Fines.php

FYI
Gary

garyw · Dec 27, 2010

More help you don't want, but are going to get anyhow. Did you know this was even required?
Gary

Reliable Roof Cleaning Jacksonville FL · Guest

garyw wrote:

More help you don't want, but are going to get anyhow. Did you know this was even required?
Gary

Gary

You are missing the point being made by those of us who object to the document as a whole. You want to justify the whole document by pointing out OHSA safety requirements. I don't think anyone is saying throw the whole document out. We're saying make it smaller, less compllicated and stay out of how we operate our business regarding functions that don't apply to cleaning a roof.

Charles

SP Cleaning · Dec 28, 2010

Charles,
I think Gary was pointing out the OSHA requirement because there were many that claimed this had no place in the cert process. This could not be further from the truth. I believe Gary was trying to clear up the safety issue points so we can move on to others.
The 50 point certification is not meant for everyone. RCIA certification is for the business owners that are ready to take their business to the NEXT LEVEL. Not for every single RCIA member. RCIA certified will be the best businesses in the roof cleaning industry.

Roof Cleaning Cleveland (216) 323-0552 · Dec 28, 2010

I think it is way to restrictive. I also think it could be bad for membership. I know a lot of guys on the other side were using certs. as a reason for not joining yet. I can see their point now. No way did I ever think getting certified to clean a roof would be so intrusive.

Reliable Roof Cleaning Jacksonville FL · Guest

SP Cleaning wrote:

Charles,
I think Gary was pointing out the OSHA requirement because there were many that claimed this had no place in the cert process. This could not be further from the truth. I believe Gary was trying to clear up the safety issue points so we can move on to others.
The 50 point certification is not meant for everyone. RCIA certification is for the business owners that are ready to take their business to the NEXT LEVEL. Not for every single RCIA member. RCIA certified will be the best businesses in the roof cleaning industry.

Chris

I couldn't disagree more. If Gary was addressing one issue so we could move on he would have stated that was his purpose. From his statement "More help you don't want, but are going to get anyhow" I believe Gary is telling me to get ready because RCIA is moving forward regardless of how I feel.

I still believe Gary was trying to justify the whole 50 point document by giving one example concerning safety. I still think the document as written gets into my business were it doesn't need to be. Roof Cleaning Certification should be about cleaning roofs and not about my website, etc.

As we move down this road a standard for certification will be developed. Once that has been completed I will make a decision as to whether I think RCIA developed something that is acceptable to me. Then it's up to me to stay or go. I made a decision to pay my membership fee and be a part of the process. That's what I'm doing. Pretty simple.

Respectfully,
Charles

Roof Cleaning Bradenton FL 941-822-2454 · Guest

I hope that when this gets discussed and prepped for a vote, we get everyone's input to keep a balance in re-writing the certs. It is not set in stone from what I understand and there is room for tweeking the problem areas. I don't think all who wrote this expected such resistance to it, but to challenge the content is the best thing for all of us to do.
It needs to be achievable, reasonable and not evasive.
The initial reason for this forum in the first place needs to be remembered
(Chris Tuckers vision ) when the certifications are set. Correct me if I am wrong on this thought Chris.
Kim R

" The founder of the RCIA and a Roof Cleaning Industry Icon. He is the owner of APPLE ROOF CLEANING in Tampa, FL Chris is also the creator of "APPLE SAUCE" and other roof cleaning solutions. He has had a very influential voice in the industry and has trained a numerous amount of individuals and companies, most of which are very successful businesses today, in fact it is quite feasible that he is responsible for the success of over 2,000 companies. He started his journey in the roof cleaning industry in Seattle, Washington and moved to Florida in the 1980's where he founded Apple Roof Cleaning. His business became successful and he eventually started getting involved with cleaning organizations , this is where he began helping other people in roof cleaning and most of the time not asking for anything in return.

Chris became president of the RCIA in 2010 when he and a few board members decided it was time to take the RCIA to the next level and beyond. Mr. Tucker has been cleaning roofs just as long as about anyone out there and with his wealth of knowledge and training bacground the RCIA couldn't have a better man behind the organization. He has helped so many companies over the years and spent tireless hours reaching out to others in need."

garyw · Dec 28, 2010

Reliable Roof Cleaning Jacksonville FL wrote:

SP Cleaning wrote:

Charles,
I think Gary was pointing out the OSHA requirement because there were many that claimed this had no place in the cert process. This could not be further from the truth. I believe Gary was trying to clear up the safety issue points so we can move on to others.
The 50 point certification is not meant for everyone. RCIA certification is for the business owners that are ready to take their business to the NEXT LEVEL. Not for every single RCIA member. RCIA certified will be the best businesses in the roof cleaning industry.

Chris

I couldn't disagree more. If Gary was addressing one issue so we could move on he would have stated that was his purpose. From his statement "More help you don't want, but are going to get anyhow" I believe Gary is telling me to get ready because RCIA is moving forward regardless of how I feel.

I still believe Gary was trying to justify the whole 50 point document by giving one example concerning safety. I still think the document as written gets into my business were it doesn't need to be. Roof Cleaning Certification should be about cleaning roofs and not about my website, etc.

As we move down this road a standard for certification will be developed. Once that has been completed I will make a decision as to whether I think RCIA developed something that is acceptable to me. Then it's up to me to stay or go. I made a decision to pay my membership fee and be a part of the process. That's what I'm doing. Pretty simple.

Respectfully,
Charles

Forgot to post the link in my above post quoted in this post. Here it is;

http://www.osha.gov/Publications/smallbusiness/small-business.html

Gary

Roof Cleaning Raleigh NC · Dec 28, 2010

Ladder safety is often times over looked within small businesses. A ladder must always be in perfect condition before a staff member is allowed to use it. Many people often work while standing on a ladder. This is not what a ladder is supposed to be used for. It is meant to get a person from one place to another. This citation will cost your company about $698.00.

Guess I'm going to have to start walking roofs or building scaffolding around a house to do the work. Can't work from a ladder, what a joke!

Roof Cleaning Virginia 540-949-6277 · Roof Cleaning Institute of America Premium Member/MODERATOR

garyw wrote:

For those of you that think RCIA is getting too far into your business, just realize that all we are trying to do is help you realize what CAN happen to you and your business. Even though you don't want any help and think there is NO laws that can apply to you, read the link here.

http://eofficesafetytips.com/OSHA-Fines.php

FYI
Gary

When reading "OSHA Fines" I went to the OSHA site and looked up ladders http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10839

I read the entire boring section 1926.1053 and cannot find anything stating, "Many people often work while standing on a ladder. This is not what a ladder is supposed to be used for. It is meant to get a person from one place to another."

If that were to be the case then painters, window washers, firefighters, etc. would not be able to work unless scaffolding was built or a lift was used. I sent an email to the writer of the statement to get clarification. When I am unable to find facts to back up statements in written articles, it makes me question everything from the author.

garyw · Dec 28, 2010

Roof Cleaning Blue Ridge VA 540-949-6277 wrote:

garyw wrote:

For those of you that think RCIA is getting too far into your business, just realize that all we are trying to do is help you realize what CAN happen to you and your business. Even though you don't want any help and think there is NO laws that can apply to you, read the link here.

http://eofficesafetytips.com/OSHA-Fines.php

FYI
Gary

When reading "OSHA Fines" I went to the OSHA site and looked up ladders http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10839

I read the entire boring section 1926.1053 and cannot find anything stating, "Many people often work while standing on a ladder. This is not what a ladder is supposed to be used for. It is meant to get a person from one place to another."

If that were to be the case then painters, window washers, firefighters, etc. would not be able to work unless scaffolding was built or a lift was used. I sent an email to the writer of the statement to get clarification. When I am unable to find facts to back up statements in written articles, it makes me question everything from the author.

Let us know your findings. I thought that was pretty stupid also, but then again a lot of what OSHA enforces is pretty stupid.
Gary

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The Roof Cleaning Institute Of America Training & Certification Forum "Find A Certified Roof Cleaner Directory"

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Lake Marion Citrus & Sumter Counties in Florida

The Roof Cleaning Institute Of America Training & Certification Forum
"Find A Certified Roof Cleaner Directory"

Dwayne Miller
FLORIDAWASH