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gutterdog · Dec 23, 2010

RE: VOTE...RCIA 50 Point Roof Cleaning Standard

Roof Cleaning Bradenton FL 941-822-2454 · Guest

We have until tomorrow night at midnight to vote right?
There has been a lot discussed here and some great points on both ends, so I will sleep on it if the voting ends on midnight the 24th. From what I read just want to confirm this.
Kim R

Dec 23, 2010

Well I have read the 50 points and when I finished I said to myself " I am going to miss RCIA ". In a nut shell to many hoops to jump through.

gutterdog · Dec 23, 2010

Roof Cleaning Long Island N.Y 516-763-4108 wrote:

Well I have read the 50 points and when I finished I said to myself " I am going to miss RCIA ". In a nut shell to many hoops to jump through.

The RCIA bends brother. There still figuring it out.

Give it some time.

garyw · Dec 23, 2010

Are any of these "hoops" anything that you are NOT doing, or should be doing at preasent. I would hope that anyone that is operating a professional business would already be doing most of what is presented here, maybe just not documenting the results or accomplishments. Again, as I said before, Certification is not Mandatory, it is optional.
Gary

Roof Cleaning Katy Texas (281) 392-2304 · Dec 23, 2010

Thanks for the concern Michael (Gutterdog). One year is not much time when I only have about one month slow time a year... Having been in business for 16 years, I do not have time for things that I do not need like Small Business Classes. That is for beginners. This sounds like instead of getting to go visit an RCIA convention to learn from, I am going to have to go just so I can take classes to pass some requirements that I am aware of. I agree we have to start somewhere but this is too much for me, expecially 2 days before Christmas. How tacky. We should be with our family not on the computer all night.

I have been a member of PWNA for many years and pay more than three times in dues what I pay RCIA. PWNA has no mandatory rules except that you must carry $1 mil in liability insurance. There are optional certifications that PWNA offers to members to better themselves and that is what I believe RCIA should do.

garyw · Dec 23, 2010

Certifications with no requirements or rules or regulations?? Amazing, Must have a lot of creditability in the industry.
Gary

Dec 23, 2010

Hi Gary....My company like many others is on the up and up. I have Liability,workmans comp additional ins,nice uniforms,a nice truck and lettered trailer {containg RCIA decals } Nice clean equipment,respectable employees,a customers is always right policy,cleaned hundreds of roofs with not one complaint.I take a little bit of offense to your comment " I would hope that anyone that is operating a professional business would already be doing most of what is presented here, maybe just not documenting the results or accomplishments. Again it's my business meeting my requirements. Here are some of the " HOOPS " Criminal background checks,what is on MY website,uniforms,Training on mixing required,Training for traversing tech,High lift training,First aid course,Ladder safty test,Pse test,Fall protection class,Dot safty review,Apply roof cleaning solution,Small bus work shop,Six hours anual cont education. I don't want to sound mean or angry to you Gary your a hard worker here... it's my business,my American dream not a FRANCHISE.

Roof Cleaning Little Rock Arkansas · Guest

I doubt there is anything Ill say that hasnt already been said in this thread but Ill go ahead anyways.

For me its about what benefits my company the most. Like everyone else I have limited time during the day to spend running and growing my business.

I see some really good things in the standard. Mainly safety related. Other things such as Business mgmt, appearance, professionalism are all tied directly to my bottom line. If a person doesnt understand that and isnt doing the best they can they should get a job.
As far as actually doing the work goes. Im a firm beleiver that its not rocket science.

The only benefit I can offer from me being a Certified RCIA member is just that being a Certified RCIA Member. At some point I guess the Standard could be a Long selling point but I think the time that would have to be dedicated to it would leave me with no time to focus on other avenues of approach.

To be honest I would not expect being a Certified RCIA member to make my phone blow up.
I could expect to focus those endless hours learning new marketing and sales techniques to make my phone ring.

I voted No because I am for a forum where contractors can come to share business, marketing and cleaning ideas. I am for a frontpage website to be crawled by google and found by homeowners. I am for a Standard that we choose to abide by because we are honest people.

I am against certification. I understand that some guys are in very competitive markets and need every edge they can get. I believe that I can give my customers better benefits than that.

To all of yall that have worked so hard for the RCIA. I appreciate each and everyone of you and everything youve done. I just disagree.

Yall I hate typing and I dont do a great job of explaining everything that is on my mind. If anyone would like to call me my number is 870 942 6543

garyw · Dec 23, 2010

My orginial post requesting input and help on this topic was made on 12-09-10. A total of 10 people responded in various ways for a total of 24 posts. The last being on 12-18-10. At that time there seemed like very few had an interest in certification.

Now with the 50 point program being posted, in less than 12 hours we have 29 people voting either for or against the program. What has re-newed the interest in this topic. If you were not interested in the last 15 days when you could have helped construct a program they everyone would have liked, why is everyone so interested now? I hope that everyone realizes that certification is just an option for Members to help promote their businesses and professionialism, and place them above other non-certified contractors. Some talk about time constraints and not needing business classes, or any other type of helpful training that MAY increase your business skills. Perhaps this type of training could help you with time management skills. The whole 50 point program was designed to assist anyone who wanted to learn business skills and procedures, or improve their existing skills, a way to quickly and economicaly acheive that goal. It was not intended to bring forth all the negative comments that are coming to the surface. Sure we all knew it would bring forth some skeptics and criticism, but if you don't like certain parts, make suggestions for changing that part. Don't just complain and leave it at that. What would you substitute in place of whatever you don't like?
Gary

-- Edited by garyw on Thursday 23rd of December 2010 10:33:47 PM

Roof Cleaning Little Rock Arkansas · Guest

Roof Cleaning Little Rock Arkansas wrote:
I voted No because I am for a forum where contractors can come to share business, marketing and cleaning ideas. I am for a frontpage website to be crawled by google and found by homeowners. I am for a Standard that we choose to abide by because we are honest people.

Dec 23, 2010

I hear you Gary,I apologise if I sounded so negative.I don't think anyone who is a paid member wants anything less then being a certified member.Some of us have taken a small business class, mine was ten weeks long at a local college.I like some of the other members statements...."I voted No because I am for a forum where contractors can come to share business, marketing and cleaning ideas. I am for a frontpage website to be crawled by google and found by homeowners. I am for a Standard that we choose to abide by because we are honest people." I agree with Chris's last line the most...but I don't think everyone has that Quality. I have read enough on here to know you guys at the helms are no dummies,you will figure somthing out. Good Luck......

guest

I vote no!

Washed-up · guest

Roof Cleaning Long Island N.Y 516-763-4108 wrote:

I hear you Gary,I apologise if I sounded so negative.I don't think anyone who is a paid member wants anything less then being a certified member.Some of us have taken a small business class, mine was ten weeks long at a local college.I like some of the other members statements...."I voted No because I am for a forum where contractors can come to share business, marketing and cleaning ideas. I am for a frontpage website to be crawled by google and found by homeowners. I am for a Standard that we choose to abide by because we are honest people." I agree with Chris's last line the most...but I don't think everyone has that Quality. I have read enough on here to know you guys at the helms are no dummies,you will figure somthing out. Good Luck......

Your right, we ALL will figure something out, but it will take some time...

If someone has ideas, please post them. Give some more input to your views.
We can work from there, but like Gary and Bill have said before, cetification is not manditory...

Baltimore MD Roof Cleaning 410-482-4367 · guest

There is some good stuff in here guys. Chris Apple I applaud your honesty on a statement that is different than many people.

Chris I think that when we start the cert that you will find that you don't need it if you don't want it, and that you can just adhere to the standards we end up with and promote yourself as a member.

Just to clarify some more things.

These are not the certification test, these are just the standards we will promote.
The actual certification process is not outlined here or decided upon yet. When the education requirements do get hashed out I can guarantee you that we will not force you to drop tons of money on them. Some of what you see will get changed if voted down and like Gary said we will offer a lot of it here for free.

Part of the reasoning behind these is that many of the practices are for your employees, and to help form a skilled labor pool in general. Imagine if you could hire a guy that was trained and certified and even looking for a job as a roof cleaner?

Another thing to realize is that as this industry grows all kinds of things will come out of the woodwork to either say that what we are doing is bad or dangerous and the more people out there damaging roofs the more likely negative results will fall on the entire industry. Meaning that if we put standards in place that don't at least mention safety and chemical handling that the EPA or government will gladly fill that gap if the public asks them to. Or we can already be prepared for that.

Let's see how the rest of the votes go and we can revise or rewrite this and discuss it into January.

deleted member

AC & Gary- While I obviously don't speak for everybody I don't think anyone meant to hurt your feelings. As long as it was to read, it's obvious that everyone involved in creating it worked long & hard.
     Maybe it would work better to boil it down to the 10 or 12 core points that are so basic that they apply to everyone and build it up as we go rather than try to offer a completed package now. If you add 5 points per week or something along those lines it will give more room for discussion & debate. I wanted to help when y'all asked for input, but it was a little too abstract to wrap my tiny little brain around.
     I'm not sure how to get to the final product, but I hope we can figure it out. I want to be able to look my customers in the eye and tell them that I DO subscribe to the RCIA way of conducting not only my operations, but my entire company. (While wearing pants of course 'cause they are required for all my employees).
     In the end I want it to point out the vast differences between the true professionals and the Chlorine Cowboys and Lowballers.

AC Lockyer · none

Roof Stain Removers wrote:

AC & Gary- While I obviously don't speak for everybody I don't think anyone meant to hurt your feelings. As long as it was to read, it's obvious that everyone involved in creating it worked long & hard.
Maybe it would work better to boil it down to the 10 or 12 core points that are so basic that they apply to everyone and build it up as we go rather than try to offer a completed package now. If you add 5 points per week or something along those lines it will give more room for discussion & debate. I wanted to help when y'all asked for input, but it was a little too abstract to wrap my tiny little brain around.
I'm not sure how to get to the final product, but I hope we can figure it out. I want to be able to look my customers in the eye and tell them that I DO subscribe to the RCIA way of conducting not only my operations, but my entire company. (While wearing pants of course 'cause they are required for all my employees).
In the end I want it to point out the vast differences between the true professionals and the Chlorine Cowboys and Lowballers.

Very appreciated!

Thanks from everyone who worked on this.

AC

guest

The Pressure washing Industry has never even done any thing that you are hoping to acomplish.

the pressure washing industry they clean a multitude of things not just roofs

trucks trailers
buildings
air planes
wood restorations
mason work
manufacturer facility
the list goes on and on I cant mention all of them

and you think its possible to have vocational schools for roof cleaning?

nothing wrong with thinking big.

all I see is spending a lot of money, but thats whats it all about is money, right.

these people don't even have 100.00 dollars for the premium membership, or it;s just not worth it to them?

I don't have the money either.

-- Edited by Roof Cleaning Winter Park FL on Friday 24th of December 2010 07:53:17 AM

garyw · Dec 24, 2010

Roof Cleaning Winter Park FL wrote:

The Pressure washing Industry has never even done any thing that you are hoping to acomplish.

the pressure washing industry they clean a multitude of things not just roofs

trucks trailers
buildings
air planes
wood restorations
mason work
manufacturer facility
the list goes on and on I cant mention all of them

and you think its possible to have vocational schools for roof cleaning?

nothing wrong with thinking big.

all I see is spending a lot of money, but thats whats it all about is money, right.

these people don't even have 100.00 dollars for the premium membership, or it;s just not worth it to them?

I don't have the money either.

-- Edited by Roof Cleaning Winter Park FL on Friday 24th of December 2010 07:53:17 AM

I told myself last night that I was NOT coming on here today and react to any negative demeaning posts. However some things just pizz me off.
What do you mean its all about the money? Do you somehow feel that myself or others are somehow going to profit from this certification program? Are you trying to imply that this whole program is designed to line the pockets of certain individuals? If so, allow me to correct your impressions.

I am 65 years old and have done very well for myself throughout my life. I had a very successful career at BellSouth, retiring at age 48, with 30 years of service. I retired on my own free will, not forced out like some. The last 10 years I was with BellSouth I also owned a Photo and Graphics lab. and kept it another 12 years after retiring. It normally grossed over a $mil per year. The age of digitial photography severly reduced that industry and I knew the time was near to close down, which I did over 3 years ago. Took my pension in a lump sum package (over $300)k) and invested it in a IRA. Not long ago the market crashed and I lost a lot. Can still get by, but cleaning roofs helps out with the "play" money.

I accepted the challenge of being the Treasurer at RCIA, as a way of giving back for all the blessings I have received in my life. My main purpose and desire is to assist others in developing a businees they can live off of and be proud of. I am a very "get things done" type person. I may come off sometimes as overbearing, but I have a real hard time with procrastition and false excuses. This is probably the result of extensive training by BellSouth in numerous business courses and employee motitvation techniques. I had no intention or desire to ever get paid anything by RCIA for my services, now or in the future. To imply anything to the contrary shows just how out of touch you are with this organization and life in general. Rumors fly about how Chris T. is being driven out and the "New management" is taking over. That also is a crock of BS. Chris is still very much alive and well and is in favor of everything that has occurred here lately.

Enough rambling.

I or anybody else has not or will not have received any compensation for the services we provide to RCIA. The only exception is the presenters of the webinars, who are compensated for their time and trouble. Anyone can present a webinar if they desire and feel they are qualified, on any topic they choose. Other than that, NO compensation has been paid to anyone. So please stop with the accusations that its "all about the money".
Gary

Roof Cleaning Virginia 540-949-6277 · Roof Cleaning Institute of America Premium Member/MODERATOR

garyw wrote:

My orginial post requesting input and help on this topic was made on 12-09-10. A total of 10 people responded in various ways for a total of 24 posts. The last being on 12-18-10. At that time there seemed like very few had an interest in certification.

Now with the 50 point program being posted, in less than 12 hours we have 29 people voting either for or against the program. What has re-newed the interest in this topic. If you were not interested in the last 15 days when you could have helped construct a program they everyone would have liked, why is everyone so interested now? I hope that everyone realizes that certification is just an option for Members to help promote their businesses and professionialism, and place them above other non-certified contractors. Some talk about time constraints and not needing business classes, or any other type of helpful training that MAY increase your business skills. Perhaps this type of training could help you with time management skills. The whole 50 point program was designed to assist anyone who wanted to learn business skills and procedures, or improve their existing skills, a way to quickly and economicaly acheive that goal. It was not intended to bring forth all the negative comments that are coming to the surface. Sure we all knew it would bring forth some skeptics and criticism, but if you don't like certain parts, make suggestions for changing that part. Don't just complain and leave it at that. What would you substitute in place of whatever you don't like?
Gary

-- Edited by garyw on Thursday 23rd of December 2010 10:33:47 PM

Gary, I am one of many who appreciate what you all have done and are doing for RCIA. I tried to find the post concerning the the certification but my search has come up empty. My memory is not completely clear so bear with me a little. That post only mentioned a few things that were in the list of 50. To be honest, some of us who posted, stating that the smaller list posted was going overboard were told (paraphrase) that we weren't looking at this the right way and to step it up a notch. The first post was not posted such as this one with a hurry up guys, you have two days to accept this. I am all for something and maybe we need to approach this as a few have mentioned... a line item veto and 5 points a week for discussion with a vote on those items at the end of the week.

It is now less than 24 hours before Christmas and here we are, trying to work together and keep peace as some who are passionate about the 50 points and some who are not, are trying to work through this. I would hope that we can table this and come back to it when the new year starts and approach it from a different perspective.

There are people in the forum who have been self employed for many years and some who have been on their own for just a few weeks. Some have been on roofs for 20+ years while others only a week. There is a lot of good information and many hundreds of cumulative years of experience here. Me personally, I tend to navigate toward those who have made it work in the simplest of ways. As so many have stated... this is not rocket science. Collectively, we can have a set of standards that will work and not leave some of with a feeling of being micro managed. Most who have been on their own for many years do so because they are very independent.

Again, THANK YOU and all who do the work behind the scene!

Merry Christmas!

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Lake Marion Citrus & Sumter Counties in Florida

The Roof Cleaning Institute Of America Training & Certification Forum
"Find A Certified Roof Cleaner Directory"

Dwayne Miller
FLORIDAWASH