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kse1221 · Guest

Business on a handshake?

PA Roof Cleaning Pros · guest

To anyone that thinks they don't need a contract I recommend taking one whole day and spending it sitting in a small claims court listening to cases. I can respect the days of old when a handshake was a contract, but those days are long gone. Customers expect to sign something (except maybe in the mountains or some backwoods rural area). Contracts spell out expectations and are a put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is assurance.

Guest

Great question Kevin. I have a feeling you'll get a lot of completely different approaches on this one.

I use no pressure sales, letting the facts speak for themselves. I tell my potential clients this up front, then I tell them that 75% of the people I provides quote to, 'sign up' on the spot. This doesn't include those that call me a day or two later saying let's do it.

I also use no contract. For American-ProTech, it's all on a handshake as you put it. This ties back in to my guarantee, puts the customer at ease and indirectly speaks volumes about our confidence, capability and track record.

I have had a few clients back out though. I've kept an eye on their roofs when passing by, and the ones's I've checked on are still dirty. I suspect most have backed out due to the economy ($$ concerns) or spouse didn't approve of spending.

So far, we don't knock on doors either. All of my clients come to me.

Much like you've eluded to, I treat them the way I want to be treated. And I can't stand high pressure sales - it's the fastest way to lose my business as a consumer.

kse1221 · Guest

To anyone that thinks they don't need a contract I recommend taking one whole day and spending it sitting in a small claims court listening to cases. I can respect the days of old when a handshake was a contract, but those days are long gone. Customers expect to sign something (except maybe in the mountains or some backwoods rural area). Contracts spell out expectations and are a put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is assurance.

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Ken Fenner
PA Roof Cleaning Company offering Roof Cleaning Western Delaware County, PA + Main Line including Broomall, Newtown Square, Media, Springfield, Aston, Ardmore, Haverford, Drexel Hill, Aston, Haverford, Ardmore, Villanova, Radnor Roof Cleaning.
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i see the liablity issues... but how does a contract help if you kill their plants and stain their deck..? unless you put that you are not responsible for anything like that.. then that opens the door for you or your guys to just spray whatever you want.. forgive me if i sound stupid or ignorant.. i am just trying to learn.. i know there are reasons for contracts.. it just seems there are loopholes for everything and if you dont do a good job or have an a hole customer, you will wind up in court anyway

-- Edited by kse1221 on Sunday 31st of October 2010 10:46:41 AM

kse1221 · Guest

Roof Cleaning Northern Virginia (571) 250 9650 wrote:

Great question Kevin. I have a feeling you'll get a lot of completely different approaches on this one.

I use no pressure sales, letting the facts speak for themselves. I tell my potential clients this up front, then I tell them that 75% of the people I provides quote to, 'sign up' on the spot. This doesn't include those that call me a day or two later saying let's do it.

I also use no contract. For American-ProTech, it's all on a handshake as you put it. This ties back in to my guarantee, puts the customer at ease and indirectly speaks volumes about our confidence, capability and track record.

I have had a few clients back out though. I've kept an eye on their roofs when passing by, and the ones's I've checked on are still dirty. I suspect most have backed out due to the economy ($$ concerns) or spouse didn't approve of spending.

So far, we don't knock on doors either. All of my clients come to me.

Much like you've eluded to, I treat them the way I want to be treated. And I can't stand high pressure sales - it's the fastest way to lose my business as a consumer.

great response.. thanks for taking the time to explain your way of doing business..

Guest

PA Roof Cleaning Pros wrote:

To anyone that thinks they don't need a contract I recommend taking one whole day and spending it sitting in a small claims court listening to cases. I can respect the days of old when a handshake was a contract, but those days are long gone. Customers expect to sign something (except maybe in the mountains or some backwoods rural area). Contracts spell out expectations and are a put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is assurance.

Hmmmmm. Me thinks my my humble hillbilly/mountain/'backwoods rural' roots may have shown through....

classictouchroofing · Guest

by law you must have a legal contract signed if you do it on a handshake it means nothing in court just imagine doing 200 roof a year but 50 do not pay cause no contract they do not have to pay on a handshake but they do on a contract plus when you offer other services like new roofs siding/soffit windows doors seamless gutter your talking bigger money. so do as you wish. but i do contracts this is 2010 not 20 years ago a handshake means nothing these days unfortunately. and its not pressuring them i look at it like this the want the service or not i really dont care im not pushy. if they want to pay me in a couple years to replace it im ok with that

PA Roof Cleaning Pros · guest

kse1221 wrote:

i see the liablity issues... but how does a contract help if you kill their plants and stain their deck..? unless you put that you are not responsible for anything like that.. then that opens the door for you or your guys to just spray whatever you want.. forgive me if i sound stupid or ignorant.. i am just trying to learn.. i know there are reasons for contracts.. it just seems there are loopholes for everything and if you dont do a good job or have an a hole customer, you will wind up in court anyway

You are correct. The contract is not meant to get a business owner out of something. If you mess something up, I don't care what your contract says, you can get sued for it and lose. Contracts are more of a way to be professional and protect yourself against nonpayment, unrealistic expectations, and let-downs. Most guys I meet that do not use a contract are either small companies or new to business or both. That is not meant as disrespect to anyone. It reminds me of something one of my business mentors told me...

"The longer you are in business, the longer your contracts become." Its very true.

kse1221 · Guest

i can see your point about getting paid....

classictouchroofing · Guest

it also makes you look like a legal buisness not just a fly by nighter lol

Chowell77 · Guest

A contract is nothing here in Texas OTHER than a piece of paper. The only way you can legally enforce a contract here in our area is to go file it with the clerk of courts BEFORE doing the work. If you don't follow this costly step then you have zero recourse to lien there house.

HOWEVER, a contract can instill professionalism, and it can keep people from just backing out because in there mind there is more than just that verbal agreement.

Texas laws are VERY specific on what steps need to be filed in order to have legal rights to enforce it. Unfortunately the cost to file the contract with the clerk of courts and the time is usually going to be far greater than the dollar amount of the actual contract itself.

classictouchroofing · Guest

lol here in the great state of ohio you can have it on a piece of toilet paper as long as all the terms and conditions are on there with the legal notes the state requires lol its sad but true

Guest

Guess I saw this comin' eh Kevin? LOL (Lots of different approaches.)

As you decide what is right for you, consider a few more things:

I've never been stiffed (yet). Might happen some day, and if/when it does, I'll chalk it up to the cost of doing business presuming I've more than made up for it by landing deals I wouldn't have landed otherwise.

Should I damage anything, it will get fixed/replaced or I'll stroke a check to have it fixed/replaced.

Despite some 'sharp tongued' replies (Tyrone - surely you weren't referring to me....Look at my bio and .....nevermind) no one has asked about the guarantee I referred to. LOL. So caught up in our own ways, some are not very open minded I see. Kevin - if you want to know, PM or call me. It's working quite well.

Will I get burned some day? Probably. But if it's improving my top line revenue by 14-18%, I'll take it.

Top line... Pretty darned important to a professional business I'd say.

Chowell77 · Guest

As far as my personal approach.........I'm with Ted and I presume it's a military thing that makes us alike in the fact that I prefer a good handshake and to this day I've never been burned.

classictouchroofing · Guest

im nor reffering to anyone just saying you have to protect your buisness. nobody does buisness in ohio without a contract that is how we know the difference between the want to bes and the true companies. i got burned 5 years ago on a handshake for 8,000 not going to happen again so thank god we drink beer with a attorney who gave me free advice. lol not gettting personal with anyone just stating the fact here in ohio and if you want to get from law advice contact your state attorney general they will tell you what you need to protect your buisness and personal assets

kse1221 · Guest

classictouchroofing wrote:

I'm nor referring to anyone just saying you have to protect your business. nobody does business in Ohio without a contract that is how we know the difference between the want to Be's and the true companies. i got burned 5 years ago on a handshake for 8,000 not going to happen again so thank god we drink beer with a attorney who gave me free advice. lol not getting personal with anyone just stating the fact here in Ohio and if you want to get from law advice contact your state attorney general they will tell you what you need to protect your business and personal assets

from what i understand to protect your personal assets, you have to become incorporated... with that... How many here have their business incorporated?

classictouchroofing · Guest

depends on what your business is from what i hear you can be llc or there is something else here we are looking into with my attorney to see if its better for me or not i will post more about it in a few days if possible. just one of those things where you have to call your attorney and ask my girlfriend owns and operates a daycare that houses 150 kids and 20 some employees they are a different business and require different status.

Guest

I havn't been knocking on doors...People aound here do not like soliciting, I always just put it between the crack of the door. I personally don't like people tryin to sell me something either.
I think I'll just have them sign a contract about payment When I show up for the job, But a good firm handshake can tell alot about ya.

Chowell77 · Guest

To best protect your personal assets here in Texas I'd highly recommend an LLC (Limited Liability) hence limits liability to business and not owners.

Ugly Shingles LLC · Oct 31, 2010

I will be the first to admit how important a contract is and after being in business for many years our contract is on legal paper front and back full. However we did a lot of work this year and never signed a single contract and we collected from every job... (((Knock on wood)))

In the time it takes to sell & sign someone up you could of sprayed a roof.

If you end up in court you could be 100% correct and still loose what's the point, more wasted time and money. Is it worth the $395.00 you charged? Just send Vinny to collect!

Sell and sign up took you 2 hours + gas ? What is a 1/2 day in court worth these days?

I say shoot a lot of pictures and give them 100% ...collect ....move on! If you damage something fix it.

Now if you KILLED the whole yard you might want to call your Insurance Company and schedule a deposition or you could get some green spray paint. wink

I have 2 Company's one Incorporated and the other LLC. and I do not knock on doors!

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do!

The Roof Cleaning Institute Of America Training & Certification Forum "Find A Certified Roof Cleaner Directory"

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"Find A Certified Roof Cleaner Directory"