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You ask some good questions.

It appears to me the standards are being set now. Someone or some body needs to start some where. RCIA may as well be that starting point.

The standards and certification process is a starting point. I am sure over time it will be re visited.

Bottom line is to develop a set process.

Given the response I am receiving about roof cleaning here in Iowa, I don't see it going any where but forward. Do I need certification or standards to continue? Probability not, but it would be nice to have a uniform process.

Ron, it was good having you on the talkshoe last week. I believe you do mostly flat work. How hard is cleaning anything? Whether it's a roof or cement put me with a pro and in a week or two I should have it down. I may not be as proficient and some questions will come up along the way, but I should be able to get the job done. The pwna house wash class. Maybe I'm wrong; but I'm assuming It's a class and then you get certified. I'm lead paint certified; took an 8 hour class passed the test and now I'm certified. The cert. committee had different goals; but when delux started posting that they were offering our certs. it put us in a f'ed up position.

Roof Cleaning Cleveland (216) 323-0552 wrote:

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Ron, it was good having you on the talkshoe last week. I believe you do mostly flat work. How hard is cleaning anything? Whether it's a roof or cement put me with a pro and in a week or two I should have it down. I may not be as proficient and some questions will come up along the way, but I should be able to get the job done. The pwna house wash class. Maybe I'm wrong; but I'm assuming It's a class and then you get certified. I'm lead paint certified; took an 8 hour class passed the test and now I'm certified. The cert. committee had different goals; but when delux started posting that they were offering our certs. it put us in a f'ed up position.

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Tell that to the Child early on in my career that a Contractor burned. She had a series of 9 surgeries and today as and adult she can finally walk on her own feet.  

Caustics are commonly used in my industry and a fellow over used it at a service stations. Becky was only 5 or 6 when she stepped out the car to encounter over use of chemicals and resulted in 3rd degree burns. She was taken to the burn unit where they discovered her skin was gone on the bottom of her feet. 

Thats the attitude brother you need to change, sorry but what you do can and has resulted in travesty. I have seen the roof cleaning units that have blown up because people made mistakes. Chris Tucker has posted these photos on the web, I have seen van roofs Blown blocks away.

Please you guys need to take this very serious. Safety is a must, no roof cleaner should receive any certification in my opinion that has not operated safe as a member of this group for over 2 years. Its call apprentice!!!!


Yes Chris and Company should be paid for teaching apprentice roof cleaners. DUES!!! 

Ron Musgraves wrote:

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I'm asking because I heard that guys under a Year could actually qualify to be RCIA certified?

Is this true?

I would think you would need like TWO years in this business to be a qualified person to be certified at the lowest level.

Teachers should have a minimum 5 years experience.

Masters 10 plus

Tell me this aint true?

If you doing this for Marketing purposes this will not work. If you hold yourself as authority figures and it can be proven otherwise you will get calls from BBB and other groups that want verification of what other industrys recognize the very standards you support.

FYI

You need other industry to support a Real certification.

Do you have anyone that supports the RCIA methods and teachings?


Please do not get your panties in a mess, I just want to let others know and understand that this is and important process in establishing a real certs that will hold up if challenged for any reason.

I'll address only positive feedback on this issue.

I post these things because I do not want to see another part of the industry take a step backwards.

I have been after Chris to take this to the next level for years and Chris knows this.

I just want to see it succeed not go down in flames by the people who do not want Chris and the Association to succeed

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I am VERY busy at the moment, but consider this. My Brother is an Air Conditioning Contractor and you must be a licensed A/C Contractor to work in Florida.
Now, his competitor used to work for him,  but was unable to pass the A/C Contactors test. So, he sent his wife to contractors exam school (she is a nurse) and guess what, she passed the test, and is now an A/C Contractor! She has never been inside an air conditioner.
Now, I passed my welding certification right OUT of welding school.

In fact, I am trying to 'be nice' here, but a guy just called me who spent 2500.00 on hood cleaners 'school' and said it was a big scam to sell him equipment.
His name is Chris Sterling, he lives up in New York!

LOL, he wants to learn roof cleaning now.

NO certification program is  perfect, and truth be told, sometimes I find it much easier to teach a brand new guy, then a veteran pressure washer.
We plan to rely a LOT on our Masters, and myself for FINAL certification Ron.
Besides, time in the "industry'  is not necessarily an indicator of perfection.

I could demand 100 before and after pics, proof of a business license for the past 10 years, and have Mother Teresa herself own the RCIA, and STILL others in the "Industry" will poke holes in our certifications, and who we certify.
We could have a hands on training class with AC or Myself teaching it, but guess what ? It could be said "AC is not even in the roof cleaning business anymore" Or "Chris does not clean roofs anymore, hasn't in years"
NOTHING will ever be perfect, and the "Industry" does not pay the bills of guys out there cleaning roofs.
Trying to 'please' everyone is an effort doomed to failure.

Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:

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Ron Musgraves wrote:

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I'm asking because I heard that guys under a Year could actually qualify to be RCIA certified?

Is this true?

I would think you would need like TWO years in this business to be a qualified person to be certified at the lowest level.

Teachers should have a minimum 5 years experience.

Masters 10 plus

Tell me this aint true?

If you doing this for Marketing purposes this will not work. If you hold yourself as authority figures and it can be proven otherwise you will get calls from BBB and other groups that want verification of what other industrys recognize the very standards you support.

FYI

You need other industry to support a Real certification.

Do you have anyone that supports the RCIA methods and teachings?


Please do not get your panties in a mess, I just want to let others know and understand that this is and important process in establishing a real certs that will hold up if challenged for any reason.

I'll address only positive feedback on this issue.

I post these things because I do not want to see another part of the industry take a step backwards.

I have been after Chris to take this to the next level for years and Chris knows this.

I just want to see it succeed not go down in flames by the people who do not want Chris and the Association to succeed

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I am VERY busy at the moment, but consider this. My Brother is an Air Conditioning Contractor and you must be a licensed A/C Contractor to work in Florida.
Now, his competitor used to work for him,  but was unable to pass the A/C Contactors test. So, he sent his wife to contractors exam school (she is a nurse) and guess what, she passed the test, and is now an A/C Contractor! She has never been inside an air conditioner.
Now, I passed my welding certification right OUT of welding school.

In fact, I am trying to 'be nice' here, but a guy just called me who spent 2500.00 on hood cleaners 'school' and said it was a big scam to sell him equipment.
His name is Chris Sterling, he lives up in New York!

LOL, he wants to learn roof cleaning now.

NO certification program is  perfect, and truth be told, sometimes I find it much easier to teach a brand new guy, then a veteran pressure washer.
We plan to rely a LOT on our Masters, and myself for FINAL certification Ron.
Besides, time in the "industry'  is not necessarily an indicator of perfection.

I could demand 100 before and after pics, proof of a business license for the past 10 years, and have Mother Teresa herself own the RCIA, and STILL others in the "Industry" will poke holes in our certifications, and who we certify.
We could have a hands on training class with AC or Myself teaching it, but guess what ? It could be said "AC is not even in the roof cleaning business anymore" Or "Chris does not clean roofs anymore, hasn't in years"
NOTHING will ever be perfect, and the "Industry" does not pay the bills of guys out there cleaning roofs.
Trying to 'please' everyone is an effort doomed to failure.

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yes your correct, they committed a crime, she and her husband are held accountable by florida state board of contractors. If they fraud or damage a consumers units the consumer has recourse through the associations and the state. 

Good Points 


Will consumers have protection through the RCIA? Will apple roof carry the burden for the entire arm of the RCIA.

If anyone complains about corrupt business practice by a member of the association will there be a policy in place?  


As we know Chris you cannot certainly be held responsible for RCIA roof cleaners poor business practice, but it will happen because we cannot control what others think.  If and when a crook is reported to and ag office for a problem like this what will be the stance? 

Ron Musgraves wrote:

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Roof Cleaning Severna Park MD wrote:

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I disagree about the length of time / experience for earning the lowest level certificate. If someone knows the information and is competent enough to pass the certification exam, then that should be sufficient for certification. With that being said, I think the test should be hard enough to pass so that experience could not be faked. Plenty of people work with computers get Microsoft Certified with NO experience, just 6 months of schooling and no actual work experience. When it comes to spraying someones roof, I don't think that should be the case.

I do, however, agree that the certification process, as it is, will not hold up as an "Industry Standard." I think it can be used for marketing, simply because the customer doesn't know squat about any certification. I was hoping for something more solid from the RCIA, and I hope it gets to that point one of these days, but for now, I would still be happy with earning a certification here.

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Thats great you can receive a Microsoft certification overnight. But in roof cleaning you could kill someone, the chems and dangers are completely different.

Plus your working on a persons largest investment. In the building industry this is why they have standards and licenses.

You must take this very serious, the consumer will unfold any marketing program. After that it will become a very serious Criminal enterprise.

You cannot organize to set standards based on marketing.

Standards are set to protect consumers and raise the standards to keep  trade elevated. Effects result in higher standards and price stability. ( not Fixing)

Its a natural evolution in any industry that truly raises the bar.  

 

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I understand they are different. An improperly training IT person could bring down the entire infrastructure of an organization, it doesn't result in death, but the result is still really bad.

My point is, it doesn't take several years to learn how to be safe and to learn how to do things properly. I'm all for safety and take it seriously, and I've only been in the cleaning business for a little over 1 year. You could have some guy who has been cleaning for 10 years who is still so hard headed that he doesn't think he  has to follow any rules.

I agree with pretty much everything you have said and I could be wrong about the experience level, but I think cleaning roofs and houses is a little less tedius than careers such as plumbing, HVAC, and Electric. With that being said, I don't disagree by any means that standards should be in place to keep the trade elevated.

-- Edited by Roof Cleaning Severna Park MD on Tuesday 22nd of March 2011 02:18:22 PM

THE IKECA DIFFERENCE
IKECA members are committed to providing a complete cleaning of the entire system– from the hood in the kitchen to the fan on the roof. They follow the most complete cleaning and inspection standards in the industry found in NFPA-96, the International Mechanical Code and International Fire Code.

Most other companies simply provide a quick and easy "hood cleaning" service which does not include the duct work or rooftop fan. This may keep the interior of the kitchen looking sharp, but it does little to secure fire safety and reduce health threats. They don’t clean the entire system and aren't committed to the same high standards as IKECA members.

With 54% of all restaurant fires starting in the kitchen, it is more important than ever to make sure the exhaust is cleaned by properly trained, qualified and certified professionals that are committed to clean to the highest standards in the industry.

IKECA Members live up to the challenge. They are passionate about doing the job right the first time, and providing the restaurant and insurance industries an integral component of their fire protection and public safety progr



This org as well as the PWNA and IWCA are noticed by outside authorities who collaborate there teachings and methods.

This is the only true way you can establish a standard and lessen the  liability.

 



-- Edited by Ron Musgraves on Tuesday 22nd of March 2011 05:05:49 PM

I don't believe any type of certification would make the 1 providing certification liable for the actions of an individual! ANY certification basically means you passed the test. It means that individule cared enough to apply himself,study and pass a test.(That's more than many in itself) A basic list of what that certification covers will give it creedence.

What one does after that is up to them.However if someone who is certified.Does not hold themselves to the standards that a certification board feels is appropriate that board has a right to revoke certification.
For example: 3 contacts to RCIA from HO's saying that XX roof cleaning is horrible! You revoke their certification.

aaron61 wrote:

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I don't believe any type of certification would make the 1 providing certification liable for the actions of an individual! ANY certification basically means you passed the test. It means that individule cared enough to apply himself,study and pass a test.(That's more than many in itself) A basic list of what that certification covers will give it creedence.

What one does after that is up to them.However if someone who is certified.Does not hold themselves to the standards that a certification board feels is appropriate that board has a right to revoke certification.
For example: 3 contacts to RCIA from HO's saying that XX roof cleaning is horrible! You revoke their certification.

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Yes your saying by them passing the test they are safe. revoking is something that has to be done.