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ssk wrote:

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Did you get further in looking at this? Looks really interesting.

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The Issue is one of SAFETY !!!!!!!
35 percent Hydrogen Peroxide is  NASTY Chit, and can  BLOW UP if exposed to Sunlight, heat, etc, etc. remember, Hydrogen is used to power Rockets ?
I was advised by several chemists to leave it alone, but have always been curious about it, and other alternatives to what we now use. This does look interesting.

 

I scratched the surface a bit reading about Hydrogen Peroxide online, probably not something too mess with. But you still wonder about it.

According to Wikipedia, 68% and above concentrations is where it gets very very dangerous. What does that mean for the lower concentrations like 30% available to industry? I have no idea.

I read that the dairy industry buys it in 30-35% concentration to use in food-safe method for sterilizing cow udders. Kinda interesting.

Really though, probably not something to mess with at all unless qualified. Might be cost prohibitive anyway. But it does make you think. The only by product is water and oxygen. That would sure be nice.

Leads me to wonder whether there might be safe chemicals that you could add to a Sodium Percarbonate solution to fully activate the hydrogen peroxide it contains. Copper sulfate or something?

I read about Tetraacetylethylenediamine (yeah, that was a cut and paste) which is an activator that makes Sodium Percarbonate a more efficient bleaching agent at lower temperatures. Do they put that in over the counter oxygen bleaches? I wonder if it would make regular SH more efficient too?

I really don't know Chite about chemistry. Thankfully, I'm not stupid enough to play the mad scientists with information off of the internet either. It would be interesting to put these questions and ideas to a chemical engineer or someone like that.

It is important to note there is MORE going on in the SH reaction then meets the eye.
I have experimted with catalysts to make different oxidizers clean stuff better, but SH is so readily to be had here in Florida, I did not pursue  it.
Certain powders I believe will work, if used with a catalyst/activator.
Calcium Hypochlorite, with an activator,, showed a lot of promise, and has the added advantage it does not contain SALT (sodium), so it will not come off the roof during a light rain, and harm plants! It has sort of poor water solubility, and will be needed to be ground to a much finer powder, IMHO.
Lithium Hypochlorite may be nice for the Manic Depressive roof cleaners who frequent our Forum, LOL

Apple Roof Cleaning Tampa FL (813) 655-8777 wrote:

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It is important to note there is MORE going on in the SH reaction then meets the eye.
I have experimted with catalysts to make different oxidizers clean stuff better, but SH is so readily to be had here in Florida, I did not pursue  it.
Certain powders I believe will work, if used with a catalyst/activator.
Calcium Hypochlorite, with an activator,, showed a lot of promise, and has the added advantage it does not contain SALT (sodium), so it will not come off the roof during a light rain, and harm plants! It has sort of poor water solubility, and will be needed to be ground to a much finer powder, IMHO.
Lithium Hypochlorite may be nice for the Manic Depressive roof cleaners who frequent our Forum, LOL

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Bill would understand that Cris!

 

Your guys having tried and tested these things (and more I'm sure), and coming back again and again to SH carries a lot of weight.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Some workable advancement or improvement may be figured out sooner or later, but it is great to have SH today. That, and the sauce/cider mixes!

Thats crazy stuff. Yea you guys tried it and SH is still the best plan so central PA here we come. 2011 will be THE YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good lord I'll never wear another backpacksprayer again!

Mike

Decide for yourself ?

Regulations vary, but low concentrations, such as 3%, are widely available and legal to buy for medical use. Higher concentrations may be considered hazardous and are typically accompanied by a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). In high concentrations, hydrogen peroxide is an aggressive oxidizer and will corrode many materials, including human skin. In the presence of a reducing agent, high concentrations of H₂O₂ will react violently.

High-concentration hydrogen peroxide streams, typically above 40%, should be considered a D001 hazardous waste, due to concentrated hydrogen peroxide's meeting the definition of a DOT oxidizer, if released into the environment. The EPA Reportable Quantity (RQ) for D001 hazardous wastes is 100 pounds, or approximately ten gallons, of concentrated hydrogen peroxide.

Hydrogen peroxide should be stored in a cool, dry, well-ventilated area and away from any flammable or combustible substances.^[36] It should be stored in a container composed of non-reactive materials such as stainless steel or glass (other materials including some plastics and aluminium alloys may also be suitable).^[37] Because it breaks down quickly when exposed to light, it should be stored in an opaque container, and pharmaceutical formulations typically come in brown bottles that filter out light.^[38]

Hydrogen peroxide, either in pure or diluted form, can pose several risks:

• Explosive vapors. Above roughly 70% concentrations, hydrogen peroxide can give off vapor that can detonate above 70 °C (158 °F) at normal atmospheric pressure.^{[citation needed]} This can then cause a boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion (BLEVE) of the remaining liquid. Distillation of hydrogen peroxide at normal pressures is thus highly dangerous.
• Hazardous reactions. Hydrogen peroxide vapors can form sensitive contact explosives with hydrocarbons such as greases. Hazardous reactions ranging from ignition to explosion have been reported with alcohols, ketones, carboxylic acids (particularly acetic acid), amines and phosphorus.^{[citation needed]}
• Spontaneous ignition. Concentrated hydrogen peroxide, if spilled on clothing (or other flammable materials), will preferentially evaporate water until the concentration reaches sufficient strength, at which point the material may spontaneously ignite.^[39][40]
• Corrosive. Concentrated hydrogen peroxide (>50%) is corrosive, and even domestic-strength solutions can cause irritation to the eyes, mucous membranes and skin.^[41] Swallowing hydrogen peroxide solutions is particularly dangerous, as decomposition in the stomach releases large quantities of gas (10 times the volume of a 3% solution) leading to internal bleeding. Inhaling over 10% can cause severe pulmonary irritation.^{[citation needed]}
• Bleach agent. Low concentrations of hydrogen peroxide, on the order of 3% or less, will chemically bleach many types of clothing to a pinkish hue. Caution should be exercised when using common products that may contain hydrogen peroxide, such as facial cleaner or contact lens solution, which easily splatter upon other surfaces.
• Internal ailments. Large oral doses of hydrogen peroxide at a 3% concentration may cause "irritation and blistering to the mouth, (which is known as Black hairy tongue) throat, and abdomen", as well as "abdominal pain, vomiting, and diarrhea".^[42]
• Vapor pressure. Hydrogen peroxide has a significant vapor pressure (1.2 kPa at 50 ^oC[CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 76th Ed, 1995-1996]) and exposure to the vapor is potentially hazardous. Hydrogen peroxide vapor is a primary irritant, primarily affecting the eyes and respiratory system and the NIOSH Immediately dangerous to life and health limit (IDLH) is only 75 ppm. Documentation for Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health Concentrations (IDLH): NIOSH [http://www.cdc.gov/NIOSH/National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health] Chemical Listing and Documentation of Revised IDLH Values (as of 3/1/95). Long term exposure to low ppm concentrations is also hazardous and can result in permanent lung damage and OSHA Occupational Safety and Health Administration has established a permissible exposure limit of 1.0 ppm calculated as an eight hour time weighted average (29 CFR 1910.1000, Table Z-1) and hydrogen peroxide has also been classified by the ACGIH American Conference of Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) as a "known animal carcinogen, with unknown relevance on humans.[2008 Threshold Limit Values for Chemical Substances and Physical Agents & Biological Exposure Indices, ACGIH] In applications where high concentrations of hydrogen peroxide are used, suitable personal protective equipment should be worn and it is prudent in situations where the vapor is likely to be generated, such as hydrogen peroxide gas or vapor sterilization, to ensure that there is adequate ventilation and the vapor concentration monitored with a continuous gas monitor for hydrogen peroxide. Continuous gas monitors for hydrogen peroxide are available from several suppliers. Further information on the hazards of hydrogen peroxide is available from OSHA Occupational Safety and Health Guideline for Hydrogen Peroxide and from the ATSDR. Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
• Skin disorders. Vitiligo is an acquired skin disorder with the loss of native skin pigment, which affects about 0.5-1% of the world population. Recent studies have discovered increased H₂O₂ levels in the epidermis and in blood are one of many hallmarks of this disease.^[43]

[edit] Historical incidents

• On July 16, 1934 in Kummersdorf, Germany a rocket engine using hydrogen peroxide exploded, killing three people. As a result of this incident, Werner von Braun decided not to use hydrogen peroxide as an oxidizer in the rockets he developed afterward.
• Several people received minor injuries after a hydrogen peroxide spill on board Northwest Airlines flight 957 from Orlando to Memphis on October 28, 1998 and subsequent fire on Northwest Airlines flight 7.^[44]
• During the Second World War, doctors in Nazi concentration camps experimented with the use of hydrogen peroxide injections in the killing of human subjects.^[45]
• Hydrogen peroxide was said to be one of the ingredients in the bombs that failed to explode in the July 21, 2005 London bombings.^[46]
• The Russian submarine K-141 Kursk sailed out to sea to perform an exercise of firing dummy torpedoes at the Pyotr Velikiy, a Kirov class battlecruiser. On August 12, 2000 at 11:28 local time (07:28 UTC), there was an explosion while preparing to fire the torpedoes. The only credible report to date is that this was due to the failure and explosion of one of the Kursk's hydrogen peroxide-fueled torpedoes. It is believed that HTP, a form of highly concentrated hydrogen peroxide used as propellant for the torpedo, seeped through rust in the torpedo casing. A similar incident was responsible for the loss of HMS Sidon in 1955
• On August 16, 2010 a spill of about 10 gallons of cleaning fluid spilled on the 53rd floor of 1515 Broadway, in Times Square, New York City. The spill, which a spokesperson for the New York City fire department said was of Hydrogen Peroxide, shut down Broadway between West 42nd and West 48th streets as a number of fire engines responded to the hazmat situation. There were no reported injuries.^[47]