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Post Info TOPIC: Here is What TSP means!!


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Here is What TSP means!!
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I red alot about the chemicles but, I didn't know what "TSP" was so... here is the information for others who don't know what it is. ( I got it from Wikipedia)

Trisodium phosphate (TSP), available at most hardware stores in white powder form, is a cleaning agent, stain remover and degreaser, commonly used to prepare surfaces for painting. It can also be called trisodium orthophosphate and has the chemical formula Na3PO4; however, it is generally found in hydrated forms. It is a highly water-soluble ionic salt. Solutions of it dissolved in water have an alkaline pH.

Other sodium phosphates, sometimes known by E number E339, are food additives and used as an acidity regulator (buffering agent), emulsifier, thickening agent, nutrition enlargement agent and sequestrant (metal-chelating agent). Sodium phosphate enemas are sold over-the-counter in the United States, as a laxative to treat constipation. However, these should not be confused with the related compounds sodium dihydrogen phosphate, also known as monosodium phosphate or MSP, and disodium phosphate.

[edit] TSP for cleaning

180px-Trisodium_phosphate_hydrate.jpg
Trisodium phosphate hydrate

Similar chemicals were once common in laundry and dishwashing detergents, but the phosphate, being a fertilizer, would cause algal blooms in the bodies of water into which the drains led. In the early 1970s the use of phosphate-containing products was limited. Now products sold as TSP Substitute, containing 8090% sodium carbonate, are promoted as a direct substitute.

Cleaning products labeled as TSP may contain other ingredients as well, and may in fact be less than half TSP.[2] So even "regular" TSP found at the hardware store may be half TSP and half "TSP substitute".[citation needed]

Although it is the active ingredient in at least one toilet bowl cleaning tablet[citation needed], TSP is generally not good for cleaning bathrooms because it can corrode metal.[citation needed]

TSP is commonly used after cleaning with mineral spirits in order to then clean up all the mineral spirits.[citation needed] TSP may be used with household chlorine bleach in the same solution[citation needed], and this is particularly good for removing mildew from wood.[citation needed] The TSP alone can cause dark stains on redwood, and bleach prevents it.

TSP is used in various forms as a boiler treatment chemical for calcium precipitation, and also to regulate the caustic effects of disodium phosphate in coordinated phosphate chemistry.[citation needed]



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Good post Juarez, interesting , i just found out they don't sell TSP in New York so i guess i'll be using the substitute. We better not inhale TSP since its a laxative ! LOL

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"It is a highly water-soluble ionic salt."

This part needs a little bit more explaination.

TSP dissolves great in HOT water.  Not so good in cold.

This time of year I like to pre-mix it in hot water before I go to a job.

In the summer time you can mix it in your tank the night before and it will dissolve pretty good by morning, because of the temperature being considerably higher than winter time.

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TROPO wrote:

Good post Juarez, interesting , i just found out they don't sell TSP in New York so i guess i'll be using the substitute. We better not inhale TSP since its a laxative ! LOL




You can order it from here Vinny. 

http://www.chemistrystore.com/product.cgi?group=49968&product=66997

Or you can just use the Apple Cider mix. 

TSP substitute usually contains sodium metasilicate, which is too corrosive for asphalt shingles.  I don't recommend it.

Sodium carbonate has very little cleaning power.  I haven't tried it, but I don't think it would be worth it knowing it's only slightly more alkaline or basic than baking soda.

TSP is a superior detergent, and it enhances the bleach the best without being too corrosive for asphalt shingles.

If it is too costly to order it from the chemistry store, then stick with the Apple Cider mix.

-- Edited by Mike Sullivan at 09:23, 2009-02-25

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TROPO wrote:

Good post Juarez, interesting , i just found out they don't sell TSP in New York so i guess i'll be using the substitute. We better not inhale TSP since its a laxative ! LOL



TROPO and JUAREZ and others,

As Mike S. pointed out, in states where it may not be LEGAL to use TSP and where TSP substitutes may contain additives that may cause more damage than they do good, the Apple Cider alternative does work, and works very well, in fact, as the ALCOHOL does an similarly effective job when mixed as decribed by Apple in the CIDER Recipe Chris and MIke and I suggest.

Using TSP in THOSE states that DO NOT allow the sale of such chemicals may open you up to an EPA "cease and dissist notice" or unneccassary fines for environmental pollution or WORSE.


Be careful to call your local AG office or the local EPA extension office and ask if you will be violating any state laws if you purchase TSP out of state and use it in a prohibiting state.

Just some food for thought.

Regards, David



-- Edited by Roof Clean USA at 02:33, 2009-02-25

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I have not been using TSP in my Love. Just SH,alcohol, & dawn am I missing out ?

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The TSP greatly increases the cleaning power of the SH. Give it a shot!!! The only problem is some states are banning it??? But if you can get it in KY than go for it!!!
It is an extra cost to the mix, but it usually speads up dwell and application time.

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Kipp, how has it been working out for you w/o the TSP?

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The roofs have been coming clean Algae*Free. But I`ve been spraying them about 3 times. Not the whole roof just where the algae has dug in. It`s just time consuming letting it dry between sprays. Will it go any faster with TSP?

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I do not use tsp as well and I only have to spray one or two times before the love really starts to work. It probrably would be faster with tsp but just not cost effective for me personally.

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There is another benefit to TSP. It is also a great cleaner! They use it to remove soot stains. I'm sure you have run into soot stains around a roof.

It really takes a lot of the atmospheric polutants off of the shingles as well. If you sprayed a roof with TSP, Dawn & water you would still see quite a bit of dark, dirty water running off of the roof. There is more on the roof than just Algae.

Brian

-- Edited by theroofcleaners on Tuesday 4th of August 2009 10:29:50 AM

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You really might find that it does Kipp, just give it a shot. Usually I am getting any roof done in one coat, but I am using more sh to help acheive that as well. The TSP solutions deffinetly work faster and stronger.

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Guys,
I tried to mix some TSP in the mix for the first time the other day, I put a bit of water in a small busket and put a bit of tsp in to see what happens. It did not dissolve AT ALL in fact I came back later in the day and knocked it out of the bucket...it was like a big white aspirin pill.
This raises 2 questions

Is there any trick to dissolving tsp?

I bought it from a local chemical supplier in Sydney...I told him i needed Tri Sodium Phosphate
he told me they call it TSPP, Tri Sodium PolyPhosphate. Can anyone confirm this is the right stuff?


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Nick,
The chemical formula for TSP is Na3PO4. You need to make sure that is what you are getting. They don't list Trisodium PolyPhosphate, but they do list Sodium TriPolyPhosphate (STPP). It is not the same stuff. It is not as alkaline as TSP.

Here is a link to a site that sells TSP, STPP and lots of other sodium phosphates.

As far as dissolving tsp in water, make sure you use hot water. I use 5 gallons of hot water to dissolve 5lbs of tsp. If I have 10lbs of tsp, I use 10 gallons of hot water. Basically 1 pound will dissolve in 1 gallon of water.

Brian

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Thanks Brian,
Thats a great link... and a great place for me to start to sort out my problems...

Much appreciated..

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Here in Ohio it's Available at most hardware stores.

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I located TSP Crystals, The sales rep said it looks like little white pellets. It is manufactured by a company called I.C. E. ( not sure it that is the right name for the manufacturer). The Question is, Is TSP crystals the right stuff. I will confirm the chemical make up with sales rep. It come in 50 # bags.

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All the TSP in Ohio at hardware stores are the substitute. There are chemical companies around that sell it though. I know a place about 10 minutes from me that sells 55 lb. bags for about $45.

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Be carefull when using TSP it can etch windows and ruin paint.  Be sure to avoid these and rinse, rinse, rinse.

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Ok I don't want to look like a dumb a@# but if sh is a bleach then why does it not take color out of the shingles. Especially if you are adding more to the love.

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